Labour WILL renationalise railways!

Redpete said:
Does that mean we blame the Civil Service in the Chancellor's office for the Budget?
Click to expand...
Besides. Full nationalisation isn't that drastic a step. Network Rail are already a State Organisation and responsible for the actual infrastructure.

LNER are prove the State can run the service. The biggest change will be taking back the rolling stock, which is owned by the likes of China.
 
Nero said:
Besides. Full nationalisation isn't that drastic a step. Network Rail are already a State Organisation and responsible for the actual infrastructure.

LNER are prove the State can run the service. The biggest change will be taking back the rolling stock, which is owned by the likes of China.
Click to expand...
I never said it wasn't.
My argument is we have a poor rail service now and yes someone is making some profit but it's still a vastly better service than it was when it was last Nationalized and I would rather it stay the same than risk the inevitable political interference and in my opinion ( not the Daily Mail ) the inevitable reduction in quality of service Nationalization would bring.

I dont want to keep repeating myself but no one will look back at British Rail and say " that's how a railway should be run "
 
Redpete said:
I never said it wasn't.
My argument is we have a poor rail service now and yes someone is making some profit but it's still a vastly better service than it was when it was last Nationalized and I would rather it stay the same than risk the inevitable political interference and in my opinion ( not the Daily Mail ) the inevitable reduction in quality of service Nationalization would bring.

I dont want to keep repeating myself but no one will look back at British Rail and say " that's how a railway should be run "
Click to expand...
Nobody is saying look at British Rail as far as I can tell. I've given you the example of LNER. I used the East Coast Mainline to Aberdeen for 8 years. In that time, it was state ran, then private, before going back to state. The old East Coast Trains and as of today, LNER were just as good, if not better than Virgin East Coast.
 
Redpete said:
Inter City back in the day was profitable so the East coast mainline making a profit is hardly something to trumpet.

Yes Nationalisation = no stikes. Right oh.

Plus do you really want Politicians running the railways.
Click to expand...
Funny how Virgin couldn't make a profit from it.
 
Redpete said:
history does not augur well for Nationalized service's.
Click to expand...
Redpete said:
it's still a vastly better service than it was when it was last Nationalized
Click to expand...
BR was massively underfunded (deliberately so) encouraged by a politically powerful "Road lobby". And we were, through the 60s, 70s and 80s still suffering from the way in which the rail network had been run into the ground during WW2.

The trick is to ring fence any nationalised service because such things are anathema to right wing thinkers. They are following the same game plan with the NHS. Ruin the public perception of the nationalised service and introduce "privatisation" as a marvellous cure all. As we can perhaps most clearly see with water and sewage. Privatisation means profit before service, there are no exceptions.
 
Muttley said:
The trick is to ring fence any nationalised service
Click to expand...
That might well be the case but as you say the same pressures from the 60's onwards will still be their.
Muttley said:
BR was massively underfunded (deliberately so)
Click to expand...
by Labour and Conservative governments so why would that change? Don't we ever learn from history.

Nationalization is some sort of Nervana for Left wing supporters where nothing can go wrong and everything smells of roses.
 
Redpete said:
That might well be the case but as you say the same pressures from the 60's onwards will still be their.

by Labour and Conservative governments so why would that change? Don't we ever learn from history.

Nationalization is some sort of Nervana for Left wing supporters where nothing can go wrong and everything smells of roses.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with your general point on nationalised industries. The likes of BT and British Airways are fine private in my opinion. People have a choice if you use their services.

Critical National Infrastructure like railways, water utilities and power distribution should be state owned and ran. China own vast parts of England. The profit disappears to places like Hong Kong. That is not right and should be the thinking of even a Tory.
 
Redpete said:
Nationalization is some sort of Nervana for Left wing supporters where nothing can go wrong and everything smells of roses.
Click to expand...
Not really. Most of our privatised railways are actually owned by Dutch, French, German and Spanish nationally owned companies, so we subsidise their cheap, clean and extensive services. It would be good if all of our money went into our system.
 
Trouble is muttley is when things are publically owned they do then get starved of investment.
I used to be very private = bad, publically owned = good. Nowadays I think that they are both bad.
Privately owned they are beholden to their shareholders, publically owned they are beholden to a public that want to pay less taxes. I can't see a public that likes to drive cars wanting a properly funded railway. After all this is a public that's said **** you to its own children with its lack of concern over environmental, education and housing.

The only solution I think is to get Charles iii on board. Try to rouse the same patriotism and pride in public services that we once had in the days they were created. Sadly it took a war to forge that pride last time.
 
Nero said:
Critical National Infrastructure like railways, water utilities and power distribution should be state owned and ran. China own vast parts of England. The profit disappears to places like Hong Kong. That is not right and should be the thinking of even a Tory.
Click to expand...
Profits should not be allowed to leave the country I agree with you there. We should be Taxing any money heavily that does leave these shores. I also can't understand why we are not windfall taxing the Gas and Oil companies.
 
Redpete said:
You are kidding we would have a minister for railways with a full clival service department.
No one will think wasn't British Rail great can't wait to get back to those days.
The UK is a basket case were the railways are concerned. We are trying to make do with lines that were built nearly 200 years ago and as soon as new infrastructure is considered its classed as a waste of money.
Click to expand...

We have already for all of that - Dept of Transport.
 
MolteniArcore said:
She runs Network Rail too? And Also Great British Railways (if created)?

My point is a lot of this stuff is nationalised already and run my a great many people, not just a group of MP's.
Click to expand...
Yes and look at the mess Network Rail is. Plus didn't someone say Nationalization meant no strikes.
 
Redpete said:
I never said it wasn't.
My argument is we have a poor rail service now and yes someone is making some profit but it's still a vastly better service than it was when it was last Nationalized
Click to expand...

Of course it is! There have been 30 years + of advancements in everything from technology, new lines, infrastucture, procedures etc through to ticketing, timetabling, planning etc since the last time railways were nationalised..

Renationalising doesn’t mean wiping out all those advancements that have improved the railway as a whole from the BR days. It’s daft to compare what may come now with what was in place 30, 40, 50 odd years ago.
It’s different times, different equipment, different people.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
Of course it is! There have been 30 years + of advancements in everything from technology, new lines, infrastucture, procedures etc through to ticketing, timetabling, planning etc since the last time railways were nationalised..

Renationalising doesn’t mean wiping out all those advancements that have improved the railway as a whole from the BR days. It’s daft to compare what may come now with what was in place 30, 40, 50 odd years ago.
It’s different times, different equipment, different people.
Click to expand...
Absolutely but history has shown that political meddling and underinvestment will only lead to a poorer service.
 
Redpete said:
Absolutely but history has shown that political meddling and underinvestment will only lead to a poorer service.
Click to expand...
History shows that when services are run for the benefit of the people and the environment rather than for private profit you get a more extensive network and don't have to jump through hoops, shop around or split your journey up into component parts to get the best ticket prices.
 
Just a small point on DB having used it many many times in the last decade, it's actually not that cheap. You still book in advance on long distance travel like we do here to get the best prices, especially on ICE.
However the state day tickets (Lander) are better value than a rail rover over here.
Plus of course trains/buses/trams are designed to connect properly.
Spain/Italy/Poland/France are the same in regard to the express services - book early.

We need to get ours state owned again and then hopefully the ticketing will be straight forward - different companies have different selling windows ,its barmy.
Crosscountry - good luck getting a cheap ticket
Transpennine - good luck getting a train!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top