Josh

Until this season I thought he looked very clinical in his cameos as a young player. He can certainly finish, but it's not quite going for him right now. It can turn around, particularly for a 20 year old.

I'm not saying he'll definitely go on to be as good or anything like that, but there are some similarities in style between him and Gyokeres. A player who, as a 22 year old, scored an underwhelming 3 times in 30 games in his first season in the championship.

I suspect fans were saying at the time he couldn't finish either.
 
He was a handful again for the centre backs and they must hate playing against him.

No doubt he’ll be disappointed with the big chance first half. I think he was caught between two types of finishes. He initially looked to be lining up for smashing it, then adjusted to more of a passed finish. He ended up doing neither which happens at times. He’ll learn from that.
 
starplayer said:
If his young body can put up with the demands of 3 games a week then I dont see any reason why we would change a winning formula. Latte lath has different attributes to Josh which Carrick might feel would serve us well by starting him v Norwich but he is hardly the most clinical in front of goal from what I have seen.
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We can also say the same about Josh too. 1 goal in 6 starts this season, and second half of last season he got 1 goal in 14 starts. So 2 in 20 that's poor. He isn't being clinical and also not really getting into goal scoring positions enough. Other CFs have been absolutely trashed by fans for poor goalscoring but not as poor as the spell Josh is enduring. We don't want him to become a boo boy target, or get abuse, we want to build his confidence up again and that might mean a spell as a sub. He missed the target with two very easy chances on Saturday, we need someone to put these away.

This might sound overly critical for a young lad, and it's not meant to be, he clearly has lots of ability, and can at times hold the ball and bring others in, but the last 3 games really, he hasn't impacted the game very much at all. Neither Lath nor Coburn have made themselves an automatic choice and they should be used interchangeably until one hits a great run of form.

Lath will of course give us far more pace up top, teams hate defending pace, he will also give us much more of a chance to win the ball high up the pitch through a high press which isn't Josh's game at all. There are certain games you don't want the opposition waltzing out from the back with the ball at their feet, I think Norwich away is probably one of those.
 
Nero said:
He was a handful again for the centre backs and they must hate playing against him.
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You say that, but I bet they would much prefer to physically battle someone than have people run at them with pace. They're championship CBs, physical battles are what they do. Yes Josh can be a handful at times, but he has showed the last couple of weeks that he doesn't over power them all.
 
Yeah it's a difficult one, because I think Lath is ahead of Josh at the minute in terms of ability (obviously older and more experienced) and taken in isolation is currently a better player.

But does Josh bring more to the team with his physicality and provide a bit more space for the 3 in behind to play in?

That's the conundrum IMO.
 
i think people criticising Coburn is really unfair. Yes he hasn't scored goals yet but he is a massive part of this successful turnaround. His hold up play, constant battling and his ability to get into good goal scoring positions shows he is very much up to it.

The goals will come, im sure of it. Its alot to ask of a 20 year old in his first full season to score every opportunity. If he did he probably wouldn't be here playing in the championship.

He occupies 2 cbs at times and when lath comes on they have already had the run around.

I was worried he didnt have the class for how we play and probably questioned whether he was physical enough but them worries have been forgotten hes had a fantastic start to the season.

Some of the hold up and little flicks on sat were excellent offered alot without getting on the scoresheet.
 
I think he might be "rested" on Tuesday. As MC said he will rotate the squad and it might be time to give Latte Lath a start.
 
TheWolfman said:
i think people criticising Coburn is really unfair. Yes he hasn't scored goals yet but he is a massive part of this successful turnaround. His hold up play, constant battling and his ability to get into good goal scoring positions shows he is very much up to it.
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I'd just like to point out, my criticism is also tempered with praise, as it should be.
 
Against teams playing a high line I'd actually like to see us swap "the order" of our CFs.

Lath's pace should force most championship defences to drop deep if they start high, which is the perfect time to bring on Coburn (when their defence is deeper and we can drop crosses into the six yard box).

If teams are sitting back Coburn is probably the better option.
 
BoroMart said:
I'd just like to point out, my criticism is also tempered with praise, as it should be.
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Thats fine and your point of view i just dont agree he deserves any criticism. I think everyone has played well in the last 3 games.

Watching the highlights back they were big chances similar with laths in his first games i just think its to be expected at this level. Especially when they are working so tirelessly in that lone striker role. I think its different when you have a striker who doesn't work for the team and is there just to score goals.

It seemed more like bad luck that we didnt score the amount of chances we missed.
 
Anton_Berg said:
Strikers who play alone up front are rarely prolific scorers. As for the missed chances, there was an on-form keeper to beat.
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I'm not going to slate him on the back of one performance, and I thought he actually played quite well bar the final bit, but he didn't manage a shot on target from the big chances he had (that I remember).

It wasn't the keeper that prevented him scoring, it was his finishing.
Header blazed over, hit the side netting and then dragged it wide.

Ruddy's big saves were from other players.
 
TheWolfman said:
Thats fine and your point of view i just dont agree he deserves any criticism.
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any criticism? I mean that's your viewpoint, but no one should be free from a fair appraisal and at time criticism in my view.

TheWolfman said:
Watching the highlights back they were big chances similar with laths in his first games
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They were very good chances yes, should be hitting the target with them both really, if the keeper saves, then fair enough. He seems to have lost a bit of confidence by only scoring twice in 10 months.

TheWolfman said:
Especially when they are working so tirelessly in that lone striker role. I think its different when you have a striker who doesn't work for the team and is there just to score goals.
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I actually think that work rate is a weaker part of Coburns game at the moment and may always be. I don't mean that he's lazy, more that as a 6 foot 3, 15 1/2 stone guy it's a lot more difficult to drag that frame around a pitch, you burn a lot of energy moving that frame around, it's also more difficult to change direction quickly as part of that press. I guess Kane is the same for england, he can't effectively high press either, it's not really his game. The smaller, quicker, lighter guy can do that much more effectively.

Coburn's strengths are holding the ball up, attracting CBs, push-n-pull to create space, using his body to protect the ball, he can drive with the ball with enough pace that his power will eat up the yards, and he's got a decent shot. For a big guy I'd like to see him work on his heading on goal and getting across the defender with a bit more aggression. He'll come good, but in the tighter games his lack of threat might hold us back right now.
 
BoroMart said:
any criticism? I mean that's your viewpoint, but no one should be free from a fair appraisal and at time criticism in my view.


They were very good chances yes, should be hitting the target with them both really, if the keeper saves, then fair enough. He seems to have lost a bit of confidence by only scoring twice in 10 months.


I actually think that work rate is a weaker part of Coburns game at the moment and may always be. I don't mean that he's lazy, more that as a 6 foot 3, 15 1/2 stone guy it's a lot more difficult to drag that frame around a pitch, you burn a lot of energy moving that frame around, it's also more difficult to change direction quickly as part of that press. I guess Kane is the same for england, he can't effectively high press either, it's not really his game. The smaller, quicker, lighter guy can do that much more effectively.

Coburn's strengths are holding the ball up, attracting CBs, push-n-pull to create space, using his body to protect the ball, he can drive with the ball with enough pace that his power will eat up the yards, and he's got a decent shot. For a big guy I'd like to see him work on his heading on goal and getting across the defender with a bit more aggression. He'll come good, but in the tighter games his lack of threat might hold us back right now.
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Maybe its because we scored and won the game and im in too good a mood.

But yeah i just dont think he deserves criticism at all so far. The same for Crooks and McNair who missed good chances. The very best players miss chances it just seemed to be one of those games.

I agree no player should be above criticism, ive criticised most players earlier in the season when i felt it necessary.

There was a few mistakes on sat by other players, jones wasted a few crosses, hackney giving the ball away in some key areas. Engel also lost the ball twice in key areas but they all made up for it with some fantastic play. Its difficult to criticise when every player plays so well as part of the team. I would not be worried if he starts on tuesday and saturday.
 
JM14 said:
Take away the missed chances and it’s actually a good performance from him, but he just isn’t a goal scorer.

Difference from last season is Archer or Akpom would have had 3 today, just proves how much of a challenge this season is for us
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I'd like to see how much more ground he covers than Archer.
People on here really seem (conveniently) to miss his other attributes adding to why we kept a clean sheet at the other end and probably why we were able to score late on (not a dig at you).
 
TheWolfman said:
Maybe its because we scored and won the game and im in too good a mood.

But yeah i just dont think he deserves criticism at all so far. The same for Crooks and McNair who missed good chances. The very best players miss chances it just seemed to be one of those games.

I agree no player should be above criticism, ive criticised most players earlier in the season when i felt it necessary.

There was a few mistakes on sat by other players, jones wasted a few crosses, hackney giving the ball away in some key areas. Engel also lost the ball twice in key areas but they all made up for it with some fantastic play. Its difficult to criticise when every player plays so well as part of the team. I would not be worried if he starts on tuesday and saturday.
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Yeah but this is fmttm and at all points through the season people need to criticise at least one player. At the minute its Josh. We have had Crooks earlier in the season. Engel came in for pelters after just 45 mins. We must be able to do better than Tommy Smith. Rogers couldn’t hit a barn door and Barlaser to some is a bog standard championship squad player.
 
BoroMart said:
any criticism? I mean that's your viewpoint, but no one should be free from a fair appraisal and at time criticism in my view.


They were very good chances yes, should be hitting the target with them both really, if the keeper saves, then fair enough. He seems to have lost a bit of confidence by only scoring twice in 10 months.


I actually think that work rate is a weaker part of Coburns game at the moment and may always be. I don't mean that he's lazy, more that as a 6 foot 3, 15 1/2 stone guy it's a lot more difficult to drag that frame around a pitch, you burn a lot of energy moving that frame around, it's also more difficult to change direction quickly as part of that press. I guess Kane is the same for england, he can't effectively high press either, it's not really his game. The smaller, quicker, lighter guy can do that much more effectively.

Coburn's strengths are holding the ball up, attracting CBs, push-n-pull to create space, using his body to protect the ball, he can drive with the ball with enough pace that his power will eat up the yards, and he's got a decent shot. For a big guy I'd like to see him work on his heading on goal and getting across the defender with a bit more aggression. He'll come good, but in the tighter games his lack of threat might hold us back right now.
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I completely disagree, did you see the 50 yard sprint he put in just prior to going off. He's also playing without a number 10 to support him as crooks is playing (very well) as a 10.5, playing towards the right to support Issey meaning he's more isolated.
 
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