JEREMY CORBYN SUSPENDED FROM LABOUR

[davepoland]

This Labour party issue is extremely interesting.

Starmer in never going to lead the party to anything like a GE election victory and he knows it, too many of the Electorate will remember him kneeling for BLM, leading the anti Brexit faction and the Tories are already implementing an anti Human Rights Lawyer strategy to target him. He knows its his job to purge the party of the unelectable elements.

RLB has already gone (a gift), Corbyn's mouth has just painted himself into a corner (another gift), even on this message board you've got the radical left lot rallying to Corbyn's side and at the same time identifying themselves through their posts and "likes" (another gift).

Thankfully Labour's future big hitters are also coming to the fore in response, with sense from Nandy and Rayner. I wonder what Burnham will have to say on the issue over the next few days and whoever else will come out and appear sensible.

Great to see my party re emerging, but they'll need to move very fast to be ready to beat the Tories in 4 years time. And don't anyone think that Boris will be the leader because he will never fight another GE (Brexit and covid bagage), they are far too ruthless to be lead into an election by a liability.

 

[bear66]

That was a dreadful R4 interview by Starmer. No personal contrition. Generally very scathing of what Corbyn had said but when challenged that Corbyn hadn't said what the headlines are accusing him of, he couldn't comment because leadership shouldn't prejudice the investigation. Yesterday it was the party's disciplinary committee that had suspended him; today it was "we". Complete shambles.

 

[Pog]

You never fail to disappoint Pog, the definition of insanity is what again? Ah yes, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Views like yours, if continued will ensure the Tories keep on governing. Corbyn and his allies are simply not trusted by the wider British public, that is obvious. To wrestle power from the Tories, power has to be gained by gaining the trust of the British public. You may not like it but the majority do not support the far left of the Labour party and a move to the centre ground appeals to those whose votes Labour needs for power. You have your beliefs, fine, but without power, you may as well have voted tory.

To blame Starmer for the division is ridiculous. You have the blinkers on if you believe that. Painting Starmer as centre right is laughable. You are painting fake news to smear the current leader. The tories are not the ones killing Corbynism, the British public are. They do not want it, trust it and have resoundingly rejected it. You and people who think like you do more damage to the political views of the average Brit. It turns people against change whether you like it or not, its true. Contrary to your blinkered ramblings on Corbyn, the British public do not want a move to the left, they are crying out for a left of centre party with a leader and front bench that are credible, trustworthy, statesmanlike and are not intransigent bullies trying to force an agenda that is largely unwanted.

Corbyn and his allies are a busted flush that single handedly passed power to the Tories for far too long now. You need to move aside and give the left of centre Starmer his shot. If you don’t, we look forward to Tory rule into 2029. Maybe thats what you secretly want.

Some questions:

1) Can you name some of these far left policies?

2) What left wing policies has Kier Starmer indicated he’d bring in?

3) If the British public disliked Corbyn’s platform so much, why where his policies incredibly popular when polled and why did he do so well in 2017 despite a hostile media and his own party trying to stop him?

4) If the British public are crying out for centrist politics (I struggled to type that without laughing) why were Ed Miliband’s Labour, Change UK and the Lib Dem’s so overwhelming rejected at the ballot box?

 

[Pog]

You never fail to disappoint Pog, the definition of insanity is what again? Ah yes, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Views like yours, if continued will ensure the Tories keep on governing. Corbyn and his allies are simply not trusted by the wider British public, that is obvious. To wrestle power from the Tories, power has to be gained by gaining the trust of the British public. You may not like it but the majority do not support the far left of the Labour party and a move to the centre ground appeals to those whose votes Labour needs for power. You have your beliefs, fine, but without power, you may as well have voted tory.

To blame Starmer for the division is ridiculous. You have the blinkers on if you believe that. Painting Starmer as centre right is laughable. You are painting fake news to smear the current leader. The tories are not the ones killing Corbynism, the British public are. They do not want it, trust it and have resoundingly rejected it. You and people who think like you do more damage to the political views of the average Brit. It turns people against change whether you like it or not, its true. Contrary to your blinkered ramblings on Corbyn, the British public do not want a move to the left, they are crying out for a left of centre party with a leader and front bench that are credible, trustworthy, statesmanlike and are not intransigent bullies trying to force an agenda that is largely unwanted.

Corbyn and his allies are a busted flush that single handedly passed power to the Tories for far too long now. You need to move aside and give the left of centre Starmer his shot. If you don’t, we look forward to Tory rule into 2029. Maybe thats what you secretly want.

The unions had already started removing funding from Starmer’s Labour prior to this, because they’ve already figured out who he is. He’s no friend of the left or working people.

He’s a centre right, neo-liberal who’s disastrous stance on Brexit contributed to a hard right Tory government being able to sweep into power on the back of “Get Brexit Done”.

 

[Alvez_48]

That was a dreadful R4 interview by Starmer. No personal contrition. Generally very scathing of what Corbyn had said but when challenged that Corbyn hadn't said what the headlines are accusing him of, he couldn't comment because leadership shouldn't prejudice the investigation. Yesterday it was the party's disciplinary committee that had suspended him; today it was "we". Complete shambles.

The thing with Corbs is he's far more wiley (spelling?) then the press or a section of this board give him credit for.

Before putting out his statement he will have ensured it complied with all guidelines. He has form on making people look rather silly like that Tory MP who recently fell out with Marcus Rashford over free school meals.

Now Keir is in the position where if and when he lets him back in the daily mails will savage him.. I guess he will get a free ride from the guardian and the Indy whatever he does though.

 

[1finny]

The unions had already started removing funding from Starmer’s Labour prior to this, because they’ve already figured out who he is. He’s no friend of the left or working people.

He’s a centre right, neo-liberal who’s disastrous stance on Brexit contributed to a hard right Tory government being able to sweep into power on the back of “Get Brexit Done”.

There is a problem here
Corbyn was leader of the Labour Party but losing the election Starmer’s fault
Corbyn led a party that was anti semitic and that was other peoples fault and It was exaggerated

 

[SuperStu]

even on this message board you've got the radical left lot rallying to Corbyn's side and at the same time identifying themselves through their posts and "likes" (another gift).

Bit of a creepy sentence.

 

[Pog]

The thing with Corbs is he's far more wiley (spelling?) then the press or a section of this board give him credit for.

Before putting out his statement he will have ensured it complied with all guidelines. He has form on making people look rather silly like that Tory MP who recently fell out with Marcus Rashford over free school meals.

Now Keir is in the position where if and when he lets him back in the daily mails will savage him.. I guess he will get a free ride from the guardian and the Indy whatever he does though.

That’s the thing, you’d think Mr Forensic would know that what Corbyn said was perfectly reasonable and protected, according to the very EHRC report that was published.

 

[Pog]

There is a problem here
Corbyn was leader of the Labour Party but losing the election Starmer’s fault
Corbyn led a party that was anti semitic and that was other peoples fault and It was exaggerated

Boro have some fans who are racist, would you describe us as a racist club?

 

[Soutra]

Some questions:

1) Can you name some of these far left policies?

2) What left wing policies has Kier Starmer indicated he’d bring in?

3) If the British public disliked Corbyn’s platform so much, why where his policies incredibly popular when polled and why did he do so well in 2017 despite a hostile media and his own party trying to stop him?

4) If the British public are crying out for centrist politics (I struggled to type that without laughing) why were Ed Miliband’s Labour, Change UK and the Lib Dem’s so overwhelming rejected at the ballot box?

1. State ownership of many industries currently in public ownership, and provision by the state for of some services that people currently pay for.

2 . None that I'm aware of. It's Keir Starmer by the way, not Kier.

3. Did these policies poll well? Or is it that, if offered lots of free stuff,people tend to say "yes".

4. Change UK never gained any traction at all. The LibDems lost because of their reversing Brexit policy, ignoring the will of the people. These days, people vote tactically - votes for LibDems, and other minority parties in England are perceived as wasted. Lots of people think they have to vote Tory to keep Labour out, or vice versa, these two being the only parties realistically capable of forming a government.

 

[Pog]

1. State ownership of many industries currently in public ownership, and provision by the state for of some services that people currently pay for.

2 . None that I'm aware of. It's Keir Starmer by the way, not Kier.

3. Did these policies poll well? Or is it that, if offered lots of free stuff,people tend to say "yes".

4. Change UK never gained any traction at all. The LibDems lost because of their reversing Brexit policy, ignoring the will of the people. These days, people vote tactically - votes for LibDems, and other minority parties in England are perceived as wasted. Lots of people think they have to vote Tory to keep Labour out, or vice versa, these two being the only parties realistically capable of forming a government.

1) I hate to break this to you, but much of our utilities are already state owned. Just not by ours. So I guess countries like Germany, Netherlands and Scotland (where water was never privatised) are now far left?

2) Exactly.

3) They’re not free, we pay for them through taxation.

4) They gained no traction because despite the media coverage they were given there was zero appetite for a centrist political party. Every single one lost their seat even the ones who jumped ship.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

No it’s a good report, I’ve spent some time reading it and it’s very thorough and even handed.

It’s findings however are being misrepresented by the media and politicians for political gain.

I've just been listening to debate on the issue being stifled on Radio4 and being channelled away from the report and its findings.

There's a rather obvious play going on here by those with the most power in the country to force a split.

 

[Pog]

I've just been listening to debate on the issue being stifled on Radio4 and being channelled away from the report and its findings.

There's a rather obvious play going on here by those with the most power in the country to force a split.

My thoughts exactly.

The Tories and their friends in the media are doing everything they can to misrepresent the report and weaponise it to split the Labour Party, and Starmer is being a useful idiot and helping them do just that.

 

[Soutra]

1) I hate to break this to you, but much of our utilities are already state owned. Just not by ours. So I guess countries like Germany, Netherlands and Scotland (where water was never privatised) are now far left?

2) Exactly.

3) They’re not free, we pay for them through taxation.

4) They gained no traction because despite the media coverage they were given there was zero appetite for a centrist political party. Every single one lost their seat even the ones who jumped ship.

1. No, the process of reclaiming into state ownership what is in private ownership is perceived as left wing. If the gas and electric had never been privatised, you wouldn't necessarily be living in a left wing state. Reclaiming them looks like a left wing move. Oh and I live in Scotland, so I am aware of the Scottish water position.

 

[coluka]

Some questions:

1) Can you name some of these far left policies?

2) What left wing policies has Kier Starmer indicated he’d bring in?

3) If the British public disliked Corbyn’s platform so much, why where his policies incredibly popular when polled and why did he do so well in 2017 despite a hostile media and his own party trying to stop him?

4) If the British public are crying out for centrist politics (I struggled to type that without laughing) why were Ed Miliband’s Labour, Change UK and the Lib Dem’s so overwhelming rejected at the ballot box?

Some questions:

1) Can you name some of these far left policies?

2) What left wing policies has Kier Starmer indicated he’d bring in?

3) If the British public disliked Corbyn’s platform so much, why where his policies incredibly popular when polled and why did he do so well in 2017 despite a hostile media and his own party trying to stop him?

4) If the British public are crying out for centrist politics (I struggled to type that without laughing) why were Ed Miliband’s Labour, Change UK and the Lib Dem’s so overwhelming rejected at the ballot box?

You are missing the point, or swerving it, probably the latter. I have not mentioned policies once. It is the trust in Corbyn, his self projection, his style, his behaviour, his failure to answer questions, avoidance tactics. He is a hypocrite. He is not trusted with national security, the manifesto contained far too many promises that were clearly not deliverable within a parliamentary term, they were a wishlist an attempt and a poor one at that to bribe the public. As if free broadband was a pressing issue. The ludicrous adding on of ill thought through add-ons after a leaders debate such as the 60yr old womens pension. A cynical vote grab, nothing more. Refusal to get off the fence on Brexit, evading serious questioning on Nuclear weapons.

If you know anything about leadership, you will know leaders need to be charismatic, they need to show strength, clarity of message, direction, honesty and to gain the trust of their audience to bring them on board to follow. Corbyn showed few leadership skills and shot himself in the foot more than a drunk blind cowboy in a snakepit

As for Starmers Labour policies, it is far too early, he has to establish himself and introduce change from within, he is still dealing with the mess of anti-semitism that Corbyn at best, ignored. There is a pandemic on and the country in turmoil. Policies will formulate nearer we creep toward an election when covid is hopefully in retreat and the state of the economy more widely known.

As for 2017, did Corbyn do well, or was it more to do with May miscalculating the mood of the public after her appalling attempt to grab power. I think the result was not because of Corbyn. His supporters will dismiss all the other factors in play of course and claim it was all him, fake news as 2019 proved resoundingly.

Seriously, Milliband The public had a coalition and the Tories were not seen in a bad light by joe public, Clegg carried much blame for the coalition and Milliband was a poor leader. Labour effectively shot themselves in the foot by electing the wrong brother. The tories held the centre ground and retained it unfortunately because Milliband and the Labour party were in the process of evolving, their big hitters had mainly gone and nobody had the confidence in the leadership. The public went with better the devil you know. Cameron kept the union together and his rhetoric on the deficit was believed. Personalities are important when leading political parties, every bit as much as policy.

 

[SuperStu]

They are taking the focus off the Government at a time when they Tories can do no right.

What focus? Starmer doesn't hold them to account on anything. You can't spend weeks saying "we support the government" repeatedly and abstaining on everything and then turn around and complain about the focus shifting.

Corbyn seems happy to bring about the destruction of the Labour Party through bitter infighting that will only lead to more public despair and distrust about Labour and their ability to govern.

Yet Corbyn didn't kick any MPs out of the party over ideology/political differences, as Starmer is clearly doing now.

Some on the left need to stop the hypocrisy, get behind the new man Starmer, who is far more electable as a leader and focus on winning back power rather than scoring yet another own goal and giving the initiative back to Johnson et al.

Nobody needs to do anything. If Starmer wants people on the left to support him and vote for him he needs to earn it.

the definition of insanity is what again? Ah yes, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

And yet Miliband didn't do any better, nor did Brown. So it's not necessarily the case that being more tory than the tories wins elections either, is it? Kinnock lost two elections doing the same stuff Starmer is now - attacking the left of the party instead of the tories. So that's not necessarily any route to government either, is it?

Painting Starmer as centre right is laughable.

He literally sacked front benchers a couple of weeks ago, for voting against secret police being able to infiltrate trade unions.

the British public do not want a move to the left, they are crying out for a left of centre party

Not sure there's a lot of logic to this. Surely a left of centre party would be a move to the left. And in any case, as others have said, there's not a lot of evidence to back this up really. The Lib Dems, Change UK, the referendum result, the constant 40% polling number for the tories - none of it really suggests a country crying out for a left of centre party. Think that may just be you projecting what you want on to others there Col.

 

[SuperStu]

As if free broadband was a pressing issue.

I mean in hindsight, given the pandemic, this would have been fantastic for the country. If we had this, maybe we wouldn't have had to see the Labour leader going against the teaching unions, and pressuring Boris in to sending kids back to school with no masks. Not one of his most forensic moments.

 

[coluka]

The unions had already started removing funding from Starmer’s Labour prior to this, because they’ve already figured out who he is. He’s no friend of the left or working people.

He’s a centre right, neo-liberal who’s disastrous stance on Brexit contributed to a hard right Tory government being able to sweep into power on the back of “Get Brexit Done”.

If you think the British public are overwhelmingly in favour of moving much more to the left than left of centre you are in denial. You refer to working people. Plenty of working people are wedded to voting tory. Employment is not a thing for the left. Wake up, smell the coffee, people like you will, if you get your way do far more to aid the tories keep power than they ever will on their own. Plenty of ordinary folk must vote tory. Lots of self employed plumbers, electricians, joiners, the backbone of the economy do. They are more trusted with the finances and taxation it appears to me. Look at how many times Labour has won 7/20 elections since 1950, only 3 Labour leaders have won a general election in 70 years, pretty damning really.

 

[SuperStu]

he is still dealing with the mess of anti-semitism that Corbyn at best, ignored.

Not what this independent report says. Again Col, I think you have a bit of a habit of projecting whatever your personal gut feeling is on something to be shared by all.

 

[1finny]

Boro have some fans who are racist, would you describe us as a racist club?

Oh come on - totally irrelevant.
He led the party that was anti semitic. It was on his watch. He should have sorted it and didn’t.

I don’t think he Is anti semitic for one moment but he has to take accountability for what went on under his leadership- ‘man of principle‘ and all that.

Real problem here was Starmer’s no 1 pledge was sorting anti semitism. He is backed into his own corner.
JC could have cut him a bit of slack here and played a straight bat
All very messy now