India Covid Situation - Big Improvement

bear66

Well-known member
They could have invested in the NHS instead of spunking money on dodgy contracts for mates for a start off.
I mean who determines that a covid patient takes priority over someone half way through cancer treatment? The excess deaths that have happened out of hospital were not all covid deaths remember.

Hancock trips himself up again earlier today by telling the parliamentary committee they'd stopped blanket DNR's last year. The question is, why were they ever implemented and why weren't the public informed.
There was a preliminary review last October on blanket DNR notices. The CQC warned that they weren't acceptable for advanced care plans or without forms completed and agreed for each individual under any circumstances, but individual GP practices served notices on care homes against these requirements.
 

Randy

Well-known member
There was a preliminary review last October on blanket DNR notices. The CQC warned that they weren't acceptable for advanced care plans or without forms completed and agreed for each individual under any circumstances, but individual GP practices served notices on care homes against these requirements.
So between March and October their were blanket DNR notices then?

Sorry but that is truly disgusting.
 

bear66

Well-known member
So between March and October their were blanket DNR notices then?

Sorry but that is truly disgusting.
It looks like there has now been a final report. There were 580 people with DNRs put in place last March with no consultation with the patient or family. There were still 180 people with these DNRs in December.
 

Randy

Well-known member
It looks like there has now been a final report. There were 580 people with DNRs put in place last March with no consultation with the patient or family. There were still 180 people with these DNRs in December.
And how many of those 580 poor people passed away?
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Lockdowns are over, that argument is done to death.
Unfortunately there are 5 million people on NHS waiting lists now as covid took precedent to everything else, I'm sure those 5 million are chuffed to pieces with that news.

Who are these millions still at high risk of covid deaths?
It's not an argument, it works, although you do and did *try to* argue it.

Now it's just basic restrictions, which aren't that bad at all, I'm not convinced we will be opening up more on the 21st mind, as case are exponential.

I didn't say millions at high risk, I said millions at risk, there's a big difference. Obviously, there's plenty left to infect, even in the UK, proven by the current rate of R, largely due to a more infectious strain, that has some immune escape.

Although if you count the rest of the world it's actually billions, although I suppose those don't count huh?

Less than half of the population is fully vaccinated, some of the most at risk can't get vaccinated (which is about 10% of over 80's I think).

Can you say for certain the below won't lead to more hospitalisations (note that's a log scale)? Who is going to treat them, you?
1623340347905.png
Then, this is how cases can still turn into a problem, even now 1 is first, then 2 lags that, then 3 lags that, then deaths lags that. Again, that's a log scale.

1623340525291.png
We're now on 7k cases, doubling every 9 days, if that continues by the 21st that's 20k cases, and then by the 30th that's 40k. Although after 21st R will probably go up as movements and interactions go up.

40k won't lead to the same deaths that it did before, certainly not, but it will still be significant, and can still cause problems for the NHS. It's not the time to think "it's over", although it pretty much would have been had BJ not flew a load of delta in with his trade deal attempts.

Still a good 10 days to see where we're at and where we're heading, and a fast uptake from the under 30's should help, albeit that won't kick in for a few weeks.
 
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Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants

Well-known member
That's a problem that members of NHS management should be solving. Again, who decides that a covid patient takes priority over a patient halfway through cancer treatment?
That's a problem that members of NHS management should be solving. Again, who decides that a covid patient takes priority over a patient halfway through cancer treatment?
Imminent threat to life takes priority.
 

Randy

Well-known member
Imminent threat to life takes priority.

I'm sure that's comforting for those relatives of those who've died from untreated cancer which was treatable for example.
Covid still taking priority now. The missus went for her first baby scan last week, she was allowed to wait in the waiting room whereas I had to wait in the corridor. I was only allowed in the scan room when my wife had entered. What difference does it make me waiting in the outside corridor to the waiting room when one, we live together, two she's fully vaccinated and I've had one dose and three does a virus respect a closed door?
 

smogontherhine

Active member
A lot of vaccine companies also make drugs you know? GSK didn't even make a vaccine, but they do make LOADS of tablets. They and Merck have funded Ivermectin research for years. Wouldn't be surprised if the others did too.

The age thing is sometimes because they use nurses, effectively they're low risk of dying, but high chance of catching it, probably gets quicker results than the general population.
I think some of you need to read this to see how scientific disinformation works and the numerous examples of it.... you're being played.....

 

Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret

Well-known member
That's a problem that members of NHS management should be solving. Again, who decides that a covid patient takes priority over a patient halfway through cancer treatment?
I love everyman solutions to things. I suppose they could invent a time machine. Give people several years training to become a medical professional. Then send them back in time to when covid started. Hell they could use it to make sure they have proper equipment to! Damn pen pushers!

Medical professionals decide who gets priority over treatment. Isn't this obvious? They always do and always have. If you turn up to a and e with a cut finger you're not going to get in ahead of someone having a heart attack.
 

Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret

Well-known member
I think some of you need to read this to see how scientific disinformation works and the numerous examples of it.... you're being played.....

You're being played. Do you think you're deep throat? The X files has a lot to answer for.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
I'm sure that's comforting for those relatives of those who've died from untreated cancer which was treatable for example.
You're the one that doesn't want lockdowns, to control cases, maybe you comfort them? Or maybe you can explain to them you don't like lockdowns, which = more covid which = less care for their loved ones?

Anyway, it's the no 1 rule of First Aid and medical care, treat the imminent threat to life first, it's been this way forever and will always be that way. Covid is treatable for most, that attend hospital, that's why they go to hospital, but people can't live without oxygen (that is certain death), delaying cancer treatment may not be (albeit it's still very bad).

That's the point in the lockdowns, control measures and not removing all restrictions, you save having potential covid patients but also free up care for others. The 150k death toll isn't the final death toll, there is more go on top of that due to missed care. You can thank Boris and co for his crap decisions (against scientific advice) on covid, and then also thank him for Brexit (which led to a $hit load of nurses leaving), they all had a massive impact on your cancer sufferer not getting care.

Covid still taking priority now. The missus went for her first baby scan last week, she was allowed to wait in the waiting room whereas I had to wait in the corridor. I was only allowed in the scan room when my wife had entered. What difference does it make me waiting in the outside corridor to the waiting room when one, we live together, two she's fully vaccinated and I've had one dose and three does a virus respect a closed door?

Sad to hear, but it's about limiting risk, it's time spent in the environments. You've not got full protection and could pose additional risk to others in the waiting room (who may not be able to get vaccinated), the same way other blokes could be posing additional risk to your missus. It's good that you were allowed in the scan room though, which is more important to you I expect?
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
I love everyman solutions to things. I suppose they could invent a time machine. Give people several years training to become a medical professional. Then send them back in time to when covid started. Hell they could use it to make sure they have proper equipment to! Damn pen pushers!

Medical professionals decide who gets priority over treatment. Isn't this obvious? They always do and always have. If you turn up to a and e with a cut finger you're not going to get in ahead of someone having a heart attack.
I was thinking the same thing, yours made me laugh though :ROFLMAO: I'm starting to think he must be on a permanent wind up.

He blames the NHS, for something that the government have caused, and something that he wants to amplify :unsure:
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
You don't need to be "deep throat" to know that profit will trump everything.
You seem to think that private companies (that invest their own capital) are not allowed to make money, by providing a service that is for the good of public health.

Pick one:
Option A) 9.5/ 10 drug, costs £40, but the company that researched, invested, bought the plant and made it, gets £5 profit
Option B) Some other random drug, not approved, most say it doesn't work, costs £30, but the Pharma company makes £3

Or in AZ's case:
Option C) 9.5/ 10 drug, costs £30, but the company that researched, invested, bought the plant and made it, gets £0 profit, albeit they probably get to keep some infrastructure/ machinery and build market share
 

smogontherhine

Active member
You seem to think that private companies (that invest their own capital) are not allowed to make money, by providing a service that is for the good of public health.

Pick one:
Option A) 9.5/ 10 drug, costs £40, but the company that researched, invested, bought the plant and made it, gets £5 profit
Option B) Some other random drug, not approved, most say it doesn't work, costs £30, but the Pharma company makes £3

Or in AZ's case:
Option C) 9.5/ 10 drug, costs £30, but the company that researched, invested, bought the plant and made it, gets £0 profit, albeit they probably get to keep some infrastructure/ machinery and build market share
You missed a few points....
1. research for the AZ vaccine was almost wholly public funded.
2. it's not just about this particular vaccine (which they may not be making money by selling) but the vaccine technology itself which they will apply to other diseases and will inevitably make money on
3. Your option B - no idea what this is.
 
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