Have to laugh at the stick Lineker and Gary Neville get on social media/Twitter

Laughing said:
Attacking the education level is attacking the person not the opinion.
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Nope, wrong again, I didn't "attack" the education level. I merely highlighted the fact that there is a very strong correlation between higher/further education and voting remain. If you take that as an attack, that is your extrapolation.

If someone has less education, I don't see that as "an attack" merely as a fact, that doesn't make them less worthwhile as a person. What it does is limit their ability to solve issues that require more analytical and critical thinking. Not because they're stupid, but merely because GCSE/O level doesn't arm you with the necessary toolbox to address more complex problems.

"Education is very important in terms of assessing and identifying the intellectual level at which individual students are capable of working. Education aims to unearth our critical thinking skills so that we can better understand our environment and take decisions that will make it a better place to live. It is therefore imperative for students to be asked questions as well as create instructions that are aimed at improving the critical thinking skills of students in order to enable them reach the top three levels of analysis, synthesis and evaluation as applicable from the Bloom’s taxonomy."

GCSE doesn't address the 3 highest levels of Blooms taxonomy and you really need those to comprehend the impact of trade agreements, international relations and macro and micro economic impact. Discuss.......
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SOURCE: https://lsme.ac.uk/blog/blooms-taxonomy
 
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Anton_Berg said:
Is everyone happy for right wing actors/sports people et al to use their fame to air their views?
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None whatsoever and they should be able to express opinion and be challenged on it, but their belief should be the focus of the debate and not the person or their right to give it.

The idea that wider views should not be expressed is abhorrent to those of us that believe that freedom of expression is a cornerstone of democracy and a vital human right.
 
Flood said:
As soon as they post anything criticizing the government they get the usual "stick to football" line from the offended right wingers. As if they have no right to an opinion on politics, but your average Sun/Daily Mail reader is entitled to knock educated sports personalities. I wonder why this is?, same with film/tv people, as soon as they voice a vaguely left wing opinion they're labled 'left wing luvies'. So media folk in prominent positions can't alert people to how badly the country is being run and call the Tories out on it?

And then there's the 'pièce de résistance'- the Champagne Socialist line. So, someone who's done well in life, made a few quid can't be concerened about social issues, helping others and is met with "why don't you give all your money away and house 10 Afghan refugees".

Funny what the right wing media has done to some people in this country. At least the right wingers still have Jim Davidson for a balanced opinion. Oh, and Laura Kuenssberg..
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Are you sure it's any different from people saying Warnock should stick to football, when he's said things like "Good old Boris", and aired his view that Brexit is a good thing?

Only real difference is the political leaning of the person making the comment, and whether or not you agree with them.
 
BoroMart said:
Nope, wrong again, I didn't "attack" the education level. I merely highlighted the fact that there is a very strong correlation between higher/further education and voting remain. If you take that as an attack, that is your extrapolation.

If someone has less education, I don't see that as "an attack" merely as a fact, that doesn't make them less worthwhile as a person. What it does is limit their ability to solve issues that require more analytical and critical thinking. Not because they're stupid, but merely because GCSE/O level doesn't arm you with the necessary toolbox to address more complex problems.

"Education is very important in terms of assessing and identifying the intellectual level at which individual students are capable of working. Education aims to unearth our critical thinking skills so that we can better understand our environment and take decisions that will make it a better place to live. It is therefore imperative for students to be asked questions as well as create instructions that are aimed at improving the critical thinking skills of students in order to enable them reach the top three levels of analysis, synthesis and evaluation as applicable from the Bloom’s taxonomy."

GCSE doesn't address the 3 highest levels of Blooms taxonomy and you really need those to comprehend the impact of trade agreements, international relations and macro and micro economic impact. Discuss.......
View attachment 26284

SOURCE: https://lsme.ac.uk/blog/blooms-taxonomy
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A long and interesting reply bm but doesn't really address my point. You used the sweeping generalization of education to make a point. It is attacking the Voter not the vote.

You may not agree, but that is exactly what it is.

In any event I am highlighting that both sides of the political fence do the same stuff so there is little point in letting it effect you. They do it, we do it. So what it's the nature of the game
 
Cuthbert said:
Are you sure it's any different from people saying Warnock should stick to football, when he's said things like "Good old Boris", and aired his view that Brexit is a good thing?

Only real difference is the political leaning of the person making the comment, and whether or not you agree with them.
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As expressed above, he lost fans for doing that.

The issue was using a Middlesbrough FC press conference to air HIS political views, if he did it on social media I would have said that I don't like his view, not "Don't air your view in that forum". Lineker doesn't stand on MotD airing his political views.
 
Laughing said:
A long and interesting reply bm but doesn't really address my point. You used the sweeping generalization of education to make a point. It is attacking the Voter not the vote.
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I used a fact, to address my point.

My point being that Brexit, international trade, and economics are not simple, they require at least a modicum of knowledge and analysis to understand the risks and impacts.

Personally I didn't think this should EVER have been a referendum item, because it needs highly educated people to understand it, you can't simplify it while addressing the key issues, if you do, it creates huge risk of corruption, coercion and catastrophe. I stand by that, get experts to deal with difficult decisions not the general populous with little knowledge or experience, or even transferable skills and skillsets.

So just to be clear, it wasn't "attacking" the voters, despite your desperate wish to frame it that way, it is "attacking" the system if anything.
 
BoroMart said:
As expressed above, he lost fans for doing that.

The issue was using a Middlesbrough FC press conference to air HIS political views, if he did it on social media I would have said that I don't like his view, not "Don't air your view in that forum". Lineker doesn't stand on MotD airing his political views.
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I agree with this whole heartedly it was a silly comment in a working class area.
 
BoroMart said:
Nope, wrong again, I didn't "attack" the education level. I merely highlighted the fact that there is a very strong correlation between higher/further education and voting remain. If you take that as an attack, that is your extrapolation.

If someone has less education, I don't see that as "an attack" merely as a fact, that doesn't make them less worthwhile as a person. What it does is limit their ability to solve issues that require more analytical and critical thinking. Not because they're stupid, but merely because GCSE/O level doesn't arm you with the necessary toolbox to address more complex problems.

"Education is very important in terms of assessing and identifying the intellectual level at which individual students are capable of working. Education aims to unearth our critical thinking skills so that we can better understand our environment and take decisions that will make it a better place to live. It is therefore imperative for students to be asked questions as well as create instructions that are aimed at improving the critical thinking skills of students in order to enable them reach the top three levels of analysis, synthesis and evaluation as applicable from the Bloom’s taxonomy."

GCSE doesn't address the 3 highest levels of Blooms taxonomy and you really need those to comprehend the impact of trade agreements, international relations and macro and micro economic impact. Discuss.......
View attachment 26284

SOURCE: https://lsme.ac.uk/blog/blooms-taxonomy
Click to expand...
Although teachers find Bloom's taxonomy useful in setting learning objectives, planning curricula etc, no formal education is required to reach the highest levels. Incidentally, the version you present, above, has been largely superseded in the 21st century by the New Bloom's Taxonomy, which places creating above evaluation.
 
BoroMart said:
I used a fact, to address my point.

My point being that Brexit, international trade, and economics are not simple, they require at least a modicum of knowledge and analysis to understand the risks and impacts.

Personally I didn't think this should EVER have been a referendum item, because it needs highly educated people to understand it, you can't simplify it while addressing the key issues, if you do, it creates huge risk of corruption, coercion and catastrophe. I stand by that, get experts to deal with difficult decisions not the general populous with little knowledge or experience, or even transferable skills and skillsets.

So just to be clear, it wasn't "attacking" the voters, despite your desperate wish to frame it that way, it is "attacking" the system if anything.
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I agree that it wasn't an issue for the voters to decide.

You may not have intended to appear to be attacking the intelligence of voters but that is what it appeared to be and I am not desperate for anything from a message board bm other than chat and discussion.
 
Cuthbert said:
Are you sure it's any different from people saying Warnock should stick to football, when he's said things like "Good old Boris", and aired his view that Brexit is a good thing?

Only real difference is the political leaning of the person making the comment, and whether or not you agree with them.
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Neil Warnock using a Middlesbrough FC press conference to say "Good Old Boris" is 100% wrong and no, not a good thing. If Lineker used MOTD as a platform for his personal political views he'd be reprimanded by the BBC as he's supposed to be impartial.
 
JackG said:
Although teachers find Bloom's taxonomy useful in setting learning objectives, planning curricula etc, no formal education is required to reach the highest levels. Incidentally, the version you present, above, has been largely superseded in the 21st century by the New Bloom's Taxonomy, which places creating above evaluation.
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teachers don't plan curricula in a national certification, the version of blooms is irrelevant to the point oo.

Nobody is arguing that it would be impossible to have the ability to solve at Blooms higher levels without formal education. But it is less likely as Blooms will arm you with the necessary toolkit to address issues that work at the higher level.

What you appear to be arguing it that formal education isn't necessary and you could pick someone out of a rainforest and they would be born with the intellectual skills necessary to solve the most complex of problems. That they could comprehend the challenges in brexit and ask the right questions to break the through the lack of expert knowledge in that field.

Personally, I have far too much respect for experts, I believe we stand on the shoulder of giants, the growth of civilisation backs this up as our understanding and technological advances have increased, as we learned to read and write and to share knowledge. That includes methods and approaches to problem solving. In your world a caveman could come along and figure out how to fly to the moon, because you can solve any problem without the need for formal education. Seems a little crazy if you ask me.

I find it amazing that you have so little regard for formal education
 
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