Fat_Dragon
Well-known member
Correct, but from 2014 to Klopp taking over, Liverpool lost Gerrard, Suarez and Sterling amongst others and finished 6th in 2014/2015. Klopp took over a very average Liverpool team.
Fraudiola
- Thread starter Pog
- Start date
BoroMart
Well-known member
totally different game then. The financial gulf between the haves and have nots was nothing like today, and winning those european trophies mean winning 4 games, you don't even qualify out of the group with that.
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
Barcelona b?
Fat_Dragon
Well-known member
They were expected to go back up. They got relegated from the Spanish 3rd division the season before Pep took over after spending 8 seasons there so were odds on to go back up.
This is nonsense. Are Ronaldo and Messi not great because they haven't played for an underdog? Guardiola won't achieve anything with an underdog because he doesn't have to. He was given the Barca job and he succeeded, his next job(s) he would only go to other big teams because he doesn't have to drop lower. Do you think Klopp or any of those others would've turned down the chance to go straight to a top job? Most people that get given a job like that so early in their managerial career fail and we all say "it was too early to do such a big job".
They have all done excellent things but so has Guardiola. He should be winning the league regularly but he is winning the league every year. This year with a points tally that would've been enough to win 26 of the 30 PL seasons, that includes a few seasons with 42 matches. Only 4 other winners have got more than 93 points and 2 of them were Man City under Guardiola.
Rofesleg
Well-known member
Different argument, I wasn't comparing him to Pep. I was adding to a list of managers that were put forward as having achieved the unexpected.
Or do you think Clough was expected to get promoted, win the league title and then win those 5 (not 4) European games - twice - within 5 years of taking over a team 16th place in Div. 2.?
But if you insist on the comparison, bearing in mind the more level playing field which you rightly point out existed back then, I'm not sure that Pep could have matched Clough's achievements without having the advantage of the financial gulf he currently enjoys. Pep is an excellent manager but for different reasons.
BoroMart
Well-known member
He certainly acheived the unexpected, but it's probable unrepeatable and he certainly wouldn't have been able to do that today with a team like Derby unless they were bought out by a billionaire
Fat_Dragon
Well-known member
No because they are players not managers. Totally different aspect of football where they have to play with 10 other players.
Antonio Conte didn't have to but after Juventus and Chelsea he went to Inter Milan and Tottenham to try his luck as an underdog. Succeeded at Inter, who knows what will happen at Tottenham.
Rofesleg
Well-known member
Yes I know.
A boutique Manager whose football methodology (in and out of possession), has been adopted across professional football and grass roots football.
Nero
Well-known member
It will be really interesting to see how Spurs go with a full season with Conte.
Conte did have to. He was sacked from Chelsea after missing Champions League qualification. He has been sacked from several other jobs. Nobody has been tempted to sack Pep. Winning a league once is a great achievement but sustaining it and finishing top back to back is something very few can do. Ferguson has done it in the PL but Wenger failed to do it, Mourinho managed to win 2 in a row once, Conte, Ancelotti etc all failed to do it. To win 4 out of 5 there is only Ferguson that has achieved that. Conte is a good manager but he has to have sustained success somewhere to be on Guardiola's level.
Guardiola isn't perfect, probably not the best cup manager, but to claim he isn't a great is a bit blinkered.
Liverpool would've won the league this season if they could win the big games. They know how to not lose them but they can't win them. 6 draws out of 6 against the other top 4 teams. 2 cup finals they only won on penalties so Klopp isn't perfect either.
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
Ah yes those massive underdogs of spurs and inter…
Fat_Dragon
Well-known member
But the other managers have not had the financial backing Pep has had all their career. If they did they would probably do the same as what Pep is doing now. The difference is Pep hasnt shown us what he can do if he didn't, the others have.
Conte spent £360m in 2 years at Chelsea.
Transfer expenditure per coach
Diese Übersicht listet die Trainer, die im Laufe ihrer Karriere zwischen der Saison 12/13 und 22/23 das meiste Geld für Neuzugänge ausgegeben haben.
All those coaches are somewhere near the top of this list. Money doesn't guarantee anything. Man Utd and Chelsea have spent a similar amount to City since Guardiola took over. Liverpool have done the best business and have spent less but they've also achieved less.
Premier League - Transfer income and expenditures
This statistic shows, which clubs of the Premier League in the seasons 16/17 to 21/22 had the highest transfer expenditures and/or transfer incomes.
These numbers have to be put in context though. £1bn or £500m are essentially the same thing. All of these clubs can buy whoever they want. They can, and do, all attract the best players. These elite players go where they want. Even though City do spend big I'd say Haaland is their first superstar signing. They aren't doing what PSG or Madrid do and paying stupid money to buy each others players.
He is beating all those other coaches when they have the same resources so why does he need to prove it elsewhere? If he was really not particularly good then he wouldn't be beating them?
Fat_Dragon
Well-known member
No manager other than Pep has spent 1 billion pounds at one club but great managers have inherited way less money, resources and exceeded expectations, Pep hasn't. YET.
I look forward to the day when Pep goes into international management where he has a pool of limited players to pick from and cant buy his way to success.
That's because most of them fail and get sacked before they get there. Having a manager in one place for 5 years is rare these days. If Utd or Chelsea could have continued success with 1 manager then their manager would be there. Guardiola has been winning all that time though. Not like it took him £1bn to win the league. He's won it 4 times.
International football tells you very little. Easy qualifications and then a knock-out where anyone can win on the day. Who are the top international managers? There are a few good ones but then you have people like Southgate and Martinez who wouldn't get a sniff of a top job. Good managers don't want to be international managers.
Marvanelli
Well-known member
Like @Nano has said, if other clubs (chelsea/Utd for example) had kept managers longer than a couple of seasons, you'd see those managers spend hundreds of millions of pounds and then comparison's can be made.
During the time at City, Utd have pretty much matched them on spending. And just look where they both are.
Pep is the most sought after manager in the world.
And there's pretty obvious reasons why he's the most wanted manager.
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
Hang on a minute you can’t have it both ways. You can assume that someone who hasn’t had financial backing to peps extent would automatically be successful, but we can’t assume pep would be without it
Pep had what he had at Barcelona b, he won the league
Fat_Dragon
Well-known member
So your saying Pep isn’t good then?
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Pep Guardiola wants a shot at international football when he leaves Manchester City management position - TNT Sports
Pep Guardiola has said his intention is to move into international management when his spell with Manchester City draws to a close.
www.eurosport.co.uk
Pep Guardiola Approached For International Job, There's 'Growing Confidence' He'll Accept
Pep Guardiola wanted by an national team.