Fraudiola

[Marvanelli]

I don’t think trophy tallies are what anyone will judge him on. The city fans don’t care about the domestic cups anymore, he could have won them both every season and it wouldn’t be what he’s judged on. The charity shield and what not even less so.

He’s basically won 2 PLs out of 4, and not got past the QF of the CL. It’s a middling record when all is said and done. Some are up in arms with him for not buying a decent defender last summer.

The City fans don't care about domestic cups anymore?

The ones I speak to certainly do! They were gutted Liverpool won the league this season....they wouldn't have been gutted if they weren't bothered.

SAF is rightly so lauded as the best manager of all time and during time as Man Utd manager - when he had arguably the best players and the biggest budget, he won 2 Champions Leagues.

Does that tarnish his legacy? Of course not.

It's just a way of some to use as a whip when judging Pep's time at clubs.

In 4 seasons he's won more at Man City than any other previous City manager has done.

In years to come, he will be looked back at by City fans are a big big part of their history - and a successful part.

 

[atypical_boro]

The City fans don't care about domestic cups anymore?

The ones I speak to certainly do! They were gutted Liverpool won the league this season....they wouldn't have been gutted if they weren't bothered.

SAF is rightly so lauded as the best manager of all time and during time as Man Utd manager - when he had arguably the best players and the biggest budget, he won 2 Champions Leagues.

Does that tarnish his legacy? Of course not.

It's just a way of some to use as a whip when judging Pep's time at clubs.

In 4 seasons he's won more at Man City than any other previous City manager has done.

In years to come, he will be looked back at by City fans are a big big part of their history - and a successful part.

Cups I said. The league isn't a cup.

 

[Marvanelli]

Cups I said. The league isn't a cup.

Man City fans were definitely gutted about losing to Arsenal in the semi final of FA Cup.

 

[atypical_boro]

The City fans don't care about domestic cups anymore?

The ones I speak to certainly do! They were gutted Liverpool won the league this season....they wouldn't have been gutted if they weren't bothered.

SAF is rightly so lauded as the best manager of all time and during time as Man Utd manager - when he had arguably the best players and the biggest budget, he won 2 Champions Leagues.

Does that tarnish his legacy? Of course not.

It's just a way of some to use as a whip when judging Pep's time at clubs.

In 4 seasons he's won more at Man City than any other previous City manager has done.

In years to come, he will be looked back at by City fans are a big big part of their history - and a successful part.

You're right in your final sentence, they'll see him as a big part of their history, and I'm not saying they hate him. But don't forget many of their fans (not all) hounded Mancini out when he failed to deliver back to back titles (having won their first in 40 odds years only the season before). They didn't hate him, but they *expected* from him. They have VERY high expectations of Pep trust me, might be hard to see this if you don't know many.

As for SAF, the fact he only won 2 CL titles is one of the reasons he isn't universally accepted, globally, as the best manager of all time. Your average Italian doesn't think he is. Obviously we do in Britain for obvious reasons, but had he won another 1 or 2 CLs in his 20+ years there'd have been unanimous agreement.

 

[atypical_boro]

Man City fans were definitely gutted about losing to Arsenal in the semi final of FA Cup.

'Gutted' yeah, because they expect to beat Arsenal. Had they won, they wouldn't have been holding Pep in higher regard for getting them past a mid-table side. They were embarassed by it, much like they are at losing to Lyon.

 

[TeaCider]

He had the best domestic season in English top flight history in terms of points won and goals scored, and followed that up with an unprecedented domestic treble with another brilliant points tally.

It's moronic to claim he's not been successful at Man City or that he's a fraud.

 

[Chappy112]

TBF, his time at City has hardly been a resounding success. His first year was a disaster, and this year not much better. Two good years in the middle, but I don't think anyone is looking at his time at City and saying its been fantastic.

Good!? I'd say it has been a resounding success. People's definitions are way out of sync with mine. So are we saying Klopp had a good season this year? I'd say it was absolutely fantastic. If smashing the PL points total and winning the league cup one year and getting 98 points and a domestic treble the next year are "good" seasons then hoooooly sheeeet.

 

[atypical_boro]

Good!? I'd say it has been a resounding success. People's definitions are way out of sync with mine. So are we saying Klopp had a good season this year? I'd say it was absolutely fantastic. If smashing the PL points total and winning the league cup one year and getting 98 points and a domestic treble the next year are "good" seasons then hoooooly sheeeet.

Expectation levels are different for Liverpool.

 

[atypical_boro]

He had the best domestic season in English top flight history in terms of points won and goals scored, and followed that up with an unprecedented domestic treble with another brilliant points tally.

It's moronic to claim he's not been successful at Man City or that he's a fraud.

He has been successful but they got rid of Pellegrini to win the CL, if it was just about winning the PL and some more domestic cups they'd have kept him.

 

[Chappy112]

Expectation levels are different for Liverpool.

So what you're saying is that the only way for Guardiola to have a fantastic season is to do the quadruple? Again, shows how good he is if that is the expectation.

 

[Marvanelli]

He has been successful but they got rid of Pellegrini to win the CL, if it was just about winning the PL and some more domestic cups they'd have kept him.

It's not just about winning the CL though is it? How can't you see that?

Pep has changed the structure at City.

Just look at the way they play football. Look at how he's improved pretty much every single player there.

Pellegrini could well have won the PL again, but not in that way and not by those margins.

If/When Pep leaves City, he will be leaving them in a far better place than where he found them.

 

[TeaCider]

He has been successful but they got rid of Pellegrini to win the CL, if it was just about winning the PL and some more domestic cups they'd have kept him.

"They" being their Emirati owners.
Their opinion on what is considered a success is irrelevant.

17/18 and 18/19 were incredible domestic seasons for Man City by any metric and broke a multitude of records.

 

[Marvanelli]

Honestly some of the expectations by some fans for Pep are incredible.

He's pretty much got an impossible task to please some fans.

 

[Chappy112]

He has been successful but they got rid of Pellegrini to win the CL, if it was just about winning the PL and some more domestic cups they'd have kept him.

Did they? I would have thought it was to become more dominant, they'd never won back to back titles, they were seen as flaky because they'd have a great season followed by a poor one, Guardiola has established them as a more dominant side. City won 1 title and 2 league cups in 3 years with Pellegrini, it isn't like he was winning the league every year, not even close, he hadn't won the league in 2 seasons when he was sacked. They finished 4th in his last season, level on points with 5th. To say the reason he was sacked was to win the CL is laughable.

 

[atypical_boro]

So what you're saying is that the only way for Guardiola to have a fantastic season is to do the quadruple? Again, shows how good he is if that is the expectation.

No I think if he won 3 PL titles out of 5, and a CL next season, that would be a fantastic season. Maybe even just get them to the final. Even the semi would be progress, he'd at least have matched Pellegrini's record in that regard.

 

[atypical_boro]

Honestly some of the expectations by some fans for Pep are incredible.

He's pretty much got an impossible task to please some fans.

Read the Blue Moon message board if you don't know any/many city fans, many of them are judging him in the same way. They don't hate him, they don't want him out, but they do think he has to take the club forward in that competition.

 

[Marvanelli]

Read the Blue Moon message board if you don't know any/many city fans, many of them are judging him in the same way. They don't hate him, they don't want him out, but they do think he has to take the club forward in that competition.

Without doubt, most if not all City fans will have expected to beat Lyon. Nearly every football fan will have. But that's what is good about our sport - you don't win games on paper.

But I know most (if not all) city fans see Pep has a legend of their history already.

His records speaks for itself.

 

[go-nads!]

Signing Pep up was not just about winning the CL, it was about establishing City amongst the global elite.

He is classed as a world class manager, he has revolutionised the way they play. They are perceived to be in a different plane now, the expectation is for them to challenge for the CL, it wasn’t before.

OK he has failed to lift the CL, but he is trying to win against other global clubs, many of whom have been at that level for decades.

I think pep has done well in the transfer market, he seems to sell players at a decent profit so I am not sure the £700 million squad label is fair. He hasn’t smashed transfer records by buying a bale, Ronaldo, Messi or Pogba. He has coached De Bruyne to an entirely different level, he will be worth a fortune now.

Pep’s coaching credentials are much over looked.

Man City were unlucky against Lyon, they clearly didn’t click but were the better side. Couple of individual errors cost them. In the CL format and especially in the one game shoot out this season one mistake can be everything. Stirling scores, city win. Simple as that.

This season has been a disappointment I’m sure. It happens, teams can’t be dominant all the time and squads need to be refreshed and tactics evolve.

Pep needs to have a better season next, let’s see if he can. But to call him a fraud is just silly. Just dealing with the egos And keeping squad harmony at that level is a skill in itself. Just look at Barcelona’s performance.

 

[atypical_boro]

This thread isn't just about City though, its about Pep. He failed to keep BM at the level they were at in the CL, not just failing to win it, but didn't get them to a final in his time there either. At City he's failed to match his predecessor's achievements.

He is an outstanding domestic coach, but since leaving Barca, his European record has been poor. Don't really see how anyone can dispute that.

 

[atypical_boro]

Did they? I would have thought it was to become more dominant, they'd never won back to back titles, they were seen as flaky because they'd have a great season followed by a poor one, Guardiola has established them as a more dominant side. City won 1 title and 2 league cups in 3 years with Pellegrini, it isn't like he was winning the league every year, not even close, he hadn't won the league in 2 seasons when he was sacked. They finished 4th in his last season, level on points with 5th. To say the reason he was sacked was to win the CL is laughable.

They knew Pellegrini wouldn't take them to that level, they expected Pep to and he hasn't. Ironically, he hasn't even matched Pellegrini's achievements in the CL.