indeedido
Well-known member
We got over £10m out of Spence.
Smith is a bog standard Championship full back.
The longer he is out of the side the better he appears to get to some.
Djed Spence
- Thread starter JM14
- Start date
Smith is a bog standard Championship full back.
The longer he is out of the side the better he appears to get to some.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
They're different players altogether, one a bread and butter defender, lots of experience and it shows.
The other helped drive a side to the Premier League playing some wonderful attacking football.
Can say the same for Spence. Wasn't many raving about his performances during the many chances he got under Warnock.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
He was an important of last season’s team and is a far more reliable player for us than Dijksteel.
Just because Spurs paid good money for Spence doesn’t mean he’s worth it and isn’t necessarily a measure of Spence’s ability. The same club paid £56m for Tanguy Ndombele.
Andy_W
Well-known member
That's the point though isn't it, and they do have a point, and his attitude is just a piece of the puzzle.
He had half a good season in the Champo, which was 20-21, and thought he was a billy big balls, then the last 1.5 years he's not even played, so he's had to wind his neck in. It spoke volumes when Forrest were not that interested (when they had the money) and Spence not even in that interested in going there, and Spurs manager didn't even want him, and that was before a ball was kicked in the prem.
So he either can't cut it, and has a better attitude than it appeared, which means he's not a great deal (for a prem club), or he can half cut it and doesn't appear to have a great attitude, so he's not a great deal then either. There's no proof he has the ability or a good attitude. Leeds have no risk, so it's worth a punt for them.
He's back in the Champo now for Leeds, which is precisely where he was two years ago (not playing PL, never mind CL), at a time when he should ahve developed the most, and he's also had a pretty bad injury too, which lessens his future chances of being decent, if anything, which means a questionable attitude is an even bigger problem for punters. It's also worth noting he got his injury at Rennes (Championship level), but this was whilst he was largely an unused substitute.
He's 23 now, and his level looks to be mid champo or as a lesser player in a high tier championship side, which is where most of us thought he was, and where most us thought his ceiling was, even more so if his attitude was a bit dodgy.
Like I said back then, we've had Spurs pants down getting £10m for him, especially when we have Jones, and they thought they were having our pants down with the £10m of addons we were never going to see, and if they were realised as a small chance then they wouldn't have been bothered.
We just need to forget about him, he wasn't good for us, wasn't great for anyone else (they had far better in their sides), and we got good money for him, even without the addons. He's not going to be anything special, there's too many boxes he doesn't tick.
Would I have him in our side now, if his attitude was ok? Probably, as our side is weaker than it was, but we could do with a right back, but we don't really need a right wing back. I would still rather have £10m though, every day of the week. In fact I'd rather have £5m. We spent £2m on Bangura and Engel combined (both left backs I appreciate), and there's nothing suggesting Spence will be better than either of those.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Yup, Spence was being slagged off a lot more than he was getting praise, and most of that was justified, at least partially. It just looked like he wasn't bothered, and didn'r work hard enough, or do enough off the ball, which is critical these days. Not saying he doesn't do that now, not seen enough of him in last 2 years, nobody has.
I've not seen many slagging off any of our current left or right backs, or right wingers like Jones etc, which pretty much shows to me we were right to let him go.
Smith isn't the answer though, he's solid enough defensive wise, but we need more than that, to be higher than 7-12th, and none of the other RB options have looked that great either. RVDB might be alright there, but looks more like a CB to me, so that's what he needs to concentrate on.
Mendieta14
Well-known member
we'd be a better team with smith in it now than without him. anyone watching can see we lack a steady hand with experience and leadership.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Reliable isn't quite good enough though, not for where we want to be, and it's a position we need to investing.
Dijk is a bit quicker so can sometimes make up for some of his errors, but he used to look alright going forward, but seems to have lost a lot of that, which may be confidence, he looks a confidence player.
So he started the season with a squad number and with the first team then?
I don't think it's any secret that Akpom was on the transfer list and was massively out of favour at the club during that summer. If anyone had came in and made a reasonable offer then he would have been away. I don't think there would have been too many boro fans upset if he had left that summer. It's not unusual for players who are likely to depart to train away from the main squad at any club. Djed and Uche were both also training away from the main squad. But once it became clear he wasn't leaving, he was brought back in and was involved from the start of the season.
Credit to Akpom for remaining motivated and working hard to bring himself back to form. Like I said in my first post, I think it was clear even in the Marseille match that he was working hard to get himself back into some good form and get himself into the first team. Chuba was in last chance saloon last season. He was out of favour at Boro and evidently nobody wanted to pay the money for him to sign him. If he hadn't had the season he had, he'd have probably ended up playing out the remainder of his career in League 1 or League 2 on 10% of the money he is at Ajax.
Andy_W
Well-known member
That shouldn't and doesn't need to come from a Right back though, that's more from the spine of the team, largely centre backs and centre mids I think.
We would probably be better defensively with Smith, but we would be less fluid going forward, whether that's a net gain or loss is anyone's guess, but either way we need better.
Agree. Smith is no superstar but he's consistent and steady. He's better than Dijksteel. He's a big loss for me.
indeedido
Well-known member
Spurs paid good money for him because of the fabulous form he showed at Forest. It wasn't in glimpses.
I don't regret us selling him at all, but you've now shifted the Smith/Spence comparison to include Dijksteel.
Smith played well with Forss in front of him.I don't think he can play as effectively with Jones in front of him.
Combinations are important.
He played well in a very attacking fluid team last season. He might not himself go marauding past players but he gets up there and supports. Played good football with Forss/Howson/Akpom up that right flank last season.
Andy_W
Well-known member
I think he did ok, but I see him (and our other right backs) as a limitation of our team.
We were winning games because of Akpom, Archer, Giles, Lenihan etc, most of the rest did ok, but nothing to shout about, so I won't class that as "doing well". Each to their own mind, can't have superstars/ top players everywhere, and some positions just taking ok is fine.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
I’m not really shifting anything, I’m saying Smith is better and more reliable than Dijksteel and has produced more for us than Spence ever did. Or was ever really likely to, let’s be honest. Spence had a great spell at Forest but his descent has already started by the looks of it. Warnock said he could be non league or Premier League, my money would say he’ll be much closer to the latter in two or three years’ time. He’s 23 and made 4 appearance for Leeds this season.
And I understand combinations are very important in football teams. It’s interesting you refer to combinations though considering how quick you were to criticise earlier in the season, especially considering the number of new players that had joined the club and the lack of time they’d had to build and develop those combinations. In fact they still haven’t had a proper chance to build them injuries have absolutely shredded our team this season.
I think we ask a lot of our full backs in the system we play.
If they aren't dropping a b0ll0ck regularly and going relatively unnoticed then they are playing well.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
Smith is perfect for us, or was last season, because it freed up Giles to maraud forward on the left. He would tuck in and cover the spaces. It also meant we could play a striker out wide in Forss, who works hard but doesn’t drop that deep. I think those two players have been a big miss for us this season, even with Jones’ marked improvement.
We had a real balance about us that hasn’t really been available to Carrick this season.
Agree with all of that
Fair enough, I must have misremembered and conflated the shirt number thing with Uche.
But my point remains the same. He was faffed about by the club, loaned back out to Greece for a year, publically talked about as available by the manager, offered on the cheap all summer and yet, when the season started (or 1 week before vs Marseille) when we hadn't signed anyone else and asked him to play he still gave it everything he had and performed. He hasn't been petulant and slandered any of his previous managers on social media since. When multiple teams were interested in him this summer he didn't immediately declare himself as only willing to sign for one of them and hamper boros negotiations. Hes a completely different character to Spence and its clear to see.
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