CURRENT SQUAD V KARANKA PROMOTION SQUAD

I love how Newy didn't want to steal the limelight from the little fella and waited till after for his comeback, a true fan and fmttm royalty
 
festa5 said:
It's difficult because the tactics and system are very different.

The Karanka side also had some partnerships that were more than the sum of their parts.

If you were picking a side to play the Karanka way, I'd go Clayton/Leadbitter and Ayala/Gibson all day long.

Not necessarily better players than some of our current players, but that spine was rock solid.

You probably wouldn't want Ayala and Gibson to be trying to play through a high press though (definitely not Ayala).

A good question is which players would get in both sides despite the tactics.

I think Friend, Dieng, Latte Lath and Ramirez are the only certainties.

Cases to be made for a few others, but don't think it's clear cut.

I suspect Downing would've been exceptional under Carrick, but that's by the by.
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Nail on the head.
 
I think Karanka built around consistency, pretty much same 11 every week, barely any injuries we were a juggernaut. PL has changed since then making it difficult for a non parachute team to be a juggernaut. If Carrick gets autos then this is a bigger achievement IMO
 
Chappy112 said:
What was his record for us? Which is what we’re discussing here. Would you have Gazza and Bryan Robson in an all time Boro 11?
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no, and neither would I have Stuani, but to suggest Jones is better than Stuani was just a joke. Jones is a good player but nowhere near the level of Stuani !
 
I think it is difficult to compare the squads like for like as we play football in such a different way under Carrick than we did under Karanka.
Interesting that the opening post rates 3 of the current back 5 (including the GK) over the Karanka back 5.

Yet in Karanka's 2 full Championship seasons we conceded 37 goals and 31 goals. Last season we conceded 62.

Of course a lot of this is down to the way we set up. Clayton as a proper anchoring CM was a big part of our great defensive record under AK. Also we didn't commit full backs as far forward as what we do under Carrick. But we conceded twice as many goals under Carrick last season than we did in the year we got promoted under AK. This is an area we will need to improve for promotion.

In the last 10 seasons the average amount of goals conceded for a top 2 team is 40.85.
Only twice in the last 10 years have teams finished in the top 2 and conceded more than 50 goals. Ipswich last season being one of them.

50% of the teams that finished in the top 2 over the last 10 seasons conceded less than 40 goals.

We aren't far away from where we need to be in the goal scoring column, (We outscored AK's promotion team by 9 goals last season).

2016 versions of Friend, Ramirez, Gibson, Ayala, Leadbitter, Clayton and Adomah would all go into our current starting line up in my opinion. With a bit of a caveat.
Leadbitter or Clayton would play in front of Howson yet I think Hackney is better than both of them.
 
B_G said:
I think it is difficult to compare the squads like for like as we play football in such a different way under Carrick than we did under Karanka.
Interesting that the opening post rates 3 of the current back 5 (including the GK) over the Karanka back 5.

Yet in Karanka's 2 full Championship seasons we conceded 37 goals and 31 goals. Last season we conceded 62.

Of course a lot of this is down to the way we set up. Clayton as a proper anchoring CM was a big part of our great defensive record under AK. Also we didn't commit full backs as far forward as what we do under Carrick. But we conceded twice as many goals under Carrick last season than we did in the year we got promoted under AK. This is an area we will need to improve for promotion.

In the last 10 seasons the average amount of goals conceded for a top 2 team is 40.85.
Only twice in the last 10 years have teams finished in the top 2 and conceded more than 50 goals. Ipswich last season being one of them.

50% of the teams that finished in the top 2 over the last 10 seasons conceded less than 40 goals.

We aren't far away from where we need to be in the goal scoring column, (We outscored AK's promotion team by 9 goals last season).

2016 versions of Friend, Ramirez, Gibson, Ayala, Leadbitter, Clayton and Adomah would all go into our current starting line up in my opinion. With a bit of a caveat.
Leadbitter or Clayton would play in front of Howson yet I think Hackney is better than both of them.
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I think it’s possible to compare players like for like to get an overall idea of quality.

Some players will be over rated, some will be underrated and some we just don’t know.

I would say overall we had more quality in that squad.. but mainly because they did it.. they completed that season and got promoted.

We’ve got a lot of players that need to step up.. and hopefully they can and do!
 
I do think the current people involved in recruiting and developing Boro players deserve some thorough praise.

The current squad has been created despite selling well over £45m of talent in the last 2 years and much less spent on incomings.

Karanka's squad cost decent money if my memory serves me right such as £9m on Rhodes
 
Stuani was a player that split opinions I always thought it was an important part of or success and would put him slightly above Jones. I remember at the time others had him non league standard possibly because he struggled to race past full backs. I liked him because he could finish and got some important goals.

Jones is still young though with only 3 years at Championship level, he could well improve.

Poster remember allot of Ramirez and he was a class act in 2016, but most of the season he was not a Boro player. I remember going to Bristol City in January and he was not a Boro player. All afternoon we played the ball across the pitch in straight and backward lines, keeping possession like a crab with its prey. We had about 3 chances all game and Bristol even less. Then near the end they had a corner and they pushed up and Aiden Flint headed in for them. Bristol were bottom 3 at the time. They kept their shape and marking, and were firm in the tackle and we really struggled to create anything in a game we were expected to win. Ramirez and Rhodes in some games gave us a bit more spark in forward positions.
 
a quick re-jig just to check on our squad as it stands..

GK Dimitrios Konstantopoulos <> Seny Dieng
DF George Friend <> Lukas Engel
DF Daniel Ayala <> Matt Clarke
DF Ritchie De Laet <> Dael Fry
DF Ben Gibson <>Rav Van Den Berg
DF Fernando Amorebieta <> Anfernee Dijksteel
MF Grant Leadbitter <> Aiden Morris
MF Adam Clayton <> Dan Barlaser
FW Jordan Rhodes <> Josh Coburn
MF Carlos De Pena <> Sonny Finch
GK Tomás Mejías <> Tom Glover
DF Julien De Sart <> Jonny Howson
DF James Husband <> George McCormick
FW Cristhian Stuani <> Marcus Forss
MF Stewart Downing <> Riley McGree
MF Adam Reach <> Alex Gilbert
MF Gastón Ramírez <> Finn Azaz
DF Dael Fry <> Harley Hunt
FW Kike Sola <> Matthew Hoppe
MF Emilio Nsue <> Isaiah Jones
DF Tomáš Kalas <> Luke Ayling
MF Albert Adomah <> Delano Burgzorg
MF Adam Forshaw <> Hayden Hackney
MF Bruno Zuculini <> Law McCabe
FW David Nugent <> Emmanuel Latte Lath
DF Jonathan Woodgate <> Darragh Lenihan
DF Alex Baptiste <> Tommy Smith
FW Kike <> Tommy Conway
MF Diego Fabbrini <> Micah Hamilton
DF Jack Stephens <> Alex Bangura
MF Yanic Wildschut <> Samuel Silvera

I think we're pretty much there.. Stuani played a big part in that season.. but if Forss can come back into the side he can make a similar impact. Downing was a lot more robust than McGree hopefully we can see him play a bigger part in this season. Hamilton has his work cut out this season to make up the slack as too does Azaz! Josh Coburn can play a big part this season,, but he needs to stay clear of injury. Aiden Morris.. big boots to fill!!
 
locomansimon said:
Stuani, played to date, 585 club games, scored 245 goals, one every 152 minutes with 26 assists, played in 2 world cup tournaments, played in 3 Copa America tournaments, has 50 full caps for Uruguay scoring 8 goals and people saying Jones is better. No I'm not drunk but clearly anyone who think Stuani wasn't a class act either have never seen him play or knows nothing about football
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some people on here are absolutely ridiculous. Jones isnt even better than forss on the right and hes a striker. Stuani has had an exceptional career its not even comparable.

Hamilton over Albert, Van den Berg over Ayala too, jesus wept :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
TheWolfman said:
some people on here are absolutely ridiculous. Jones isnt even better than forss on the right and hes a striker. Stuani has had an exceptional career its not even comparable.

Hamilton over Albert, Van den Berg over Ayala too, jesus wept :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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DF Daniel Ayala <> Matt Clarke
DF Ben Gibson <>Rav Van Den Berg
FW Cristhian Stuani <> Marcus Forss
MF Emilio Nsue <> Isaiah Jones
MF Albert Adomah <> Delano Burgzorg

I think those comparisons are pretty fair tbh
 
newyddion said:
DF Daniel Ayala <> Matt Clarke
DF Ben Gibson <>Rav Van Den Berg
FW Cristhian Stuani <> Marcus Forss
MF Emilio Nsue <> Isaiah Jones
MF Albert Adomah <> Delano Burgzorg

I think those comparisons are pretty fair tbh
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Its a bad comparison because Karankas was such a well drilled squad. Carricks team have so many ups and downs and off performances.

DF Daniel Ayala <> Matt Clarke Ayala was outstanding, clarkes been good
DF Ben Gibson <>Rav Van Den Berg Not even close so far
FW Cristhian Stuani <> Marcus Forss Similar players its a close one
MF Emilio Nsue <> Isaiah Jones Nsue technically so much better could defend, pass, score, cross not even on the same level. Nsue was massively underated
MF Albert Adomah <> Delano Burgzorg albert is probably one of the most consistant championship players there has been and was excellent most weeks. Burzorg proved nothing yet

style wise they are quite similar
 
TheWolfman said:
Its a bad comparison because Karankas was such a well drilled squad. Carricks team have so many ups and downs and off performances.

DF Daniel Ayala <> Matt Clarke Ayala was outstanding, clarkes been good
DF Ben Gibson <>Rav Van Den Berg Not even close so far
FW Cristhian Stuani <> Marcus Forss Similar players its a close one
MF Emilio Nsue <> Isaiah Jones Nsue technically so much better could defend, pass, score, cross not even on the same level. Nsue was massively underated
MF Albert Adomah <> Delano Burgzorg albert is probably one of the most consistant championship players there has been and was excellent most weeks. Burzorg proved nothing yet
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Ayala's biggest strength was his distribution from his headers.. Clark is up there for defending tho
RVDB has the potential to go further than Ben Gibson..
Marcus Forss suffers with injury.. a huge problem for us.
Albert Adomah was unreal.. Burgzorg will be up there with goal contributions.. not many can hold a light to Adomah
 
Objectively Stuani is levels above Jones, but I don't think anyone is making that point?

It's really tricky to compare squads like-for-like. Different setups, style, relative ages/experience etc.

I am surprised we only scored 9 more goals last season than Karanka's side though, thought it would be higher as we're a much more expansive side (as evidenced by the goals against column).
 
changingman said:
Objectively Stuani is levels above Jones, but I don't think anyone is making that point?

It's really tricky to compare squads like-for-like. Different setups, style, relative ages/experience etc.

I am surprised we only scored 9 more goals last season than Karanka's side though, thought it would be higher as we're a much more expansive side (as evidenced by the goals against column).
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Isaiah Jones is closer to Emilio Nsue in terms of a comparison.. Right Wing Back who can play further forward

Cristian Stuani would be much closer to Marcus Forss.. the striker playing on the right wing.. it suited them both and with a similar goal return.
 
Canyoudigit said:
Let's analyse this as though Micah Hamilton, Tommy Conway and Ryan Giles are all part of this year's squad.
Dieng over Dimi
Rav over Ayala
Gibbo over Clarke
Ayling over Nsue
George over Giles
Hackney over Clayton
Grant over Howson
Stuani over Isiah
Hamilton over Albert
Gaston over Riley
Latte Lath over Nugent
Stronger depth this season maybe
Thoughts ?
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The casual swapping between forenames and surnames has stopped me from being able to properly participate in this thread, I’m sorry.
 
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