Cole Palmer or Phil Foden?

I just think it's obvious
That’s just it though, it isn’t obvious how to get these players showing their best form for England and working together to well. I think it’s really hard to find a way getting them playing well some
In their second or third favourite positions. If it was that easier we would be England manager
 
Regards to fitting Foden and Palmer into the England Squad.

….……….Pickford
……Walker Stones Guehi
..…….Bellingham Rice
…Saka Palmer Foden Gordon
……………Kane
 
Bellingham is playing CM now for Real Madrid and at the end of the day it's the position he played in at the start of his career. Yes he is excellent playing as a 10 but he's also excellent playing box-to-box.

For me it should be between Rice and Bellingham for the box-to-box role. The issue for England during the Euros final was that we didn't have that deep-lying midfielder with the ability to receive the ball on the half-turn and play the ball out. I'd have either Gomes or Wharton playing in that role.

.....................Pickford...................

Trent.....Stones...Guehi.....Shaw

..........Wharton...Bellingham.....

Saka.............Palmer.....Grealish

.......................Kane.......................
 
Regards to fitting Foden and Palmer into the England Squad.

….……….Pickford
……Walker Stones Guehi
..…….Bellingham Rice
…Saka Palmer Foden Gordon
……………Kane
We’d be very very vulnerable to fast wide counter attacks
 
That’s just it though, it isn’t obvious how to get these players showing their best form for England and working together to well. I think it’s really hard to find a way getting them playing well some
In their second or third favourite positions. If it was that easier we would be England manager
I'm not saying I could make it work, that's not my job. But it's fairly obvious what they need to do to make it work, and they should have the skills and tools to be able to do it. Ex pro's, pundits and managers say the same thing etc, we're too rigid. It also seems to me like individual player power, and individual player choices on the pitch is overriding what is best for the team.

It's their job as managers to make that work, and the players should be good enough to be able to adapt and retain 100% of their ability, just obv positional sense will take some work. That's what they have 20 coaches and analysts for though also. Other teams have the same problems and still win things etc, loads of teams with much bigger problems have won things.

It's not like Foden's never played on the left of Bellingham centre mid though, or Palmer up front. For example, for city, Foden's played away from no 10 or wide more times than he has played no 10 or centrally. I bet Bellingham has played centre mid more than any other position on the pitch.

City have been playing with 2 no 10's recently and Foden hasn't been taking either of those positions, even with de bruyne missing a lot. Don't think he's started a game no 10 all year.

It's more about having the bottle to tell them that's where they're going to be playing for England, if they want to play a lot of games and win something. It needs advanced prep, and telling the players who is no1 for what position and who is no2 etc, rather than chop and changing week to week. Pick a formation, style and team, and stick with it, until you get good at it etc. Use the friendlies and qualifiers to do it, not the tournaments. We should still be able to walk qualifying whilst doing this.

When you have some top, top level players you prioritise a formation choice to get them in the team, but when you don't have those you put the players into the formation you want.

So, go 3-2-4-1 or 4-1-4-1, with two no 10's if you must, instead of trying to find a player to fill a second holding mid role that we shouldn't need, or putting 4 defenders on the pitch. 4-2-3-1 doesn't make sense with the players we have, it's way too negative.

Even when playing 4 at the back it's not like we can use the excuse of saying the left and right backs are great first choices and will be getting up high either, largely as our left back choices are not great for the style we should be playing, and we don't play trent right back. We play fairly defensive left and right backs. Sure walker plays rb for city, but also is allowed higher up the pitch for city, and he's just as good as a right centre back etc.

Or we just rotate everyone who wants to play no 10 in no 10, none of them really being happy with this, and they all get less game time, and we have some of our best talent on the bench.
 
We’d be very very vulnerable to fast wide counter attacks
Who cares, any team would be vulnerable to our attacks.

Walker and Guehi are quick enough and good enough where they can make that work, or they should be at least.

Saka's good at working back and rapid too, same as Gordon, he's probably one of the quickest/ fittest in the league.
 
You don't need to have all your best players in the pitch at once. If you have two good goalkeepers you don't play them both. It's the same for other positions. You can play 2 of the 3 but not all 3 or you are back to repeating the mistakes of shoehorning in Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard again.

Use 2 of them. Probably Bellingham in midfield and one of the other 2 at 10. The 3rd will be sub. Foden and Palmer can both sub for Saka as well if needed. None of them are effective wide left so that shouldn't happen.
 
You don't need to have all your best players in the pitch at once. If you have two good goalkeepers you don't play them both. It's the same for other positions. You can play 2 of the 3 but not all 3 or you are back to repeating the mistakes of shoehorning in Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard again.

Use 2 of them. Probably Bellingham in midfield and one of the other 2 at 10. The 3rd will be sub. Foden and Palmer can both sub for Saka as well if needed. None of them are effective wide left so that shouldn't happen.
Bit of false equivalence mentioning keepers, they don't play other positions like Foden does often, or centre mid like Bellingham has most of his career.

Bellingham is practically built to be a centre mid, he's got every attribute for it, and he's probably more suited to centre mid than no 10 anyway. There's no reason why Foden can't play left mid/ left wing/ left forward and be effective.

Scholes played left mid for utd a fair amount of times, and deeper roles for utd, he just didn't play well when playing for England which was largely his own fault as he says so himself, he still had lots of games in the middle where he didn't perform like he does for his club. He was very open with this on the podcast with Neville etc last week I think it was.

Scholes was a great footballer, possibly even better than Gerrard or Lampard, but he didn't have the same engine as those and wasn't as good at winning the ball back, so maybe there was more cause to just not play Scholes, in the middle at least. Seeing as we had no other good left sided players, since forever then of course Scholes was gonna play left though.

Similar to Gerrard and Lampard, they should have been able to make that work, and the managers and coaches should too, it's not an excuse. Maybe club rivalry messed all that up, but that's bad management. Could have put Gerrard deeper and Lampard higher if we wanted to, but we didn't do it. Other teams seem to manage, so should we. Southgate was excellent at getting all the players on the same page, just didn't have that page quite right for maybe getting the most out of the squad, but that's not a criticism. He already united the squad where others failed, and we wouldn't have won anything with a disjointed squad with rival factions either. He got 1/2 right, where others got 0/2. We need 2/2 to win something.

I get it's good to have good subs, but even with all three playing we would still have great subs, like Grealish, Maddison, Gordon and maybe even Rogers by the next tournament. Most of them are so good in their positions that they're higher level players than others we have at the back or in goal etc. It just makes sense to play very attacking with all that attacking ability, and take the shackles off.

I would just make room, for all three, as a I see a 90% Foden on the left as better than the other left options, or he could be. Palmer is a lot more rigid to the 10 role, and is more of a goal and assist threat so he goes in there first pick for me, if he keeps up this form, the other two are more versatile so should be able to go elsewhere.
 
But it's fairly obvious what they need to do to make it work, and they should have the skills and tools to be able to do it. Ex pro's, pundits and managers say the same thing etc,
Yet none of them have put themselves forward to do it because talk is cheap.

They always state the positives of what they claim the answer is, but never realistically state the negatives that go with it. It’s always a trade off, there are no simple answers
 
Palmer did it in the Semi final and the Final of the Euros mind. Not many bigger games than them.
Cameo appearances, very different from being the main man. He’s got the potential but we have to see what his mentality is as a starting player because everything I’m hearing now is what I heard 18 months ago about Foden and 3 years ago about saka, let’s see what his mental strength is like
 
Cameo appearances, very different from being the main man. He’s got the potential but we have to see what his mentality is as a starting player because everything I’m hearing now is what I heard 18 months ago about Foden and 3 years ago about saka, let’s see what his mental strength is like

Saka has been consistently good for England often excellent.
If you can come on in literally the biggest games you can play in, and impact games the way Palmer did in the summer, that’s a very good indicator of your mentality.
 
Cameo appearances, very different from being the main man. He’s got the potential but we have to see what his mentality is as a starting player because everything I’m hearing now is what I heard 18 months ago about Foden and 3 years ago about saka, let’s see what his mental strength is like
Palmer is blessed with a total lack of intelligence. He doesn't have any mentality. He just turns up and plays football against anyone as if he was still playing on the school playground. He doesn't feel pressure.
 
Saka has been consistently good for England often excellent.
If you can come on in literally the biggest games you can play in, and impact games the way Palmer did in the summer, that’s a very good indicator of your mentality.
It doesn’t always translate like that which is why some players are labelled super subs. There is isn’t enough data yet to see if palmer can do it consistently against the big sides. It’s promising what we’ve seen but we need to see more of him starting games and see if he is that good, or a flat track bully. I’m not ready to declare him the English Messi just yet
 
Palmer is blessed with a total lack of intelligence. He doesn't have any mentality. He just turns up and plays football against anyone as if he was still playing on the school playground. He doesn't feel pressure.
Yes I’ve heard that, but at some point it’ll click, he’ll feel the pressure and that’s where find out what he’s really made of
 
It doesn’t always translate like that which is why some players are labelled super subs. There is isn’t enough data yet to see if palmer can do it consistently against the big sides. It’s promising what we’ve seen but we need to see more of him starting games and see if he is that good, or a flat track bully. I’m not ready to declare him the English Messi just yet
I can’t believe we are potentially putting palmer in the super sub category here. He had 33 goal involvements last season and is on 10 this season. Both at the top of the pile.

He clearly isn’t a flat track bully, he’s contributed on the international stage. He’s clearly a special talent. He closed the gap to foden since the thread was created, it’s probably a matter of time before he surpasses him as a talent
 
A Quick Look at the flat bully claims and palmer scored against arsenal Man City Tottenham in the first half of last season including an additional assist vs spurs

Scored against Newcastle and 4 against Man Utd in the next tier of teams

Additionally by all accounts foden had a really good game last night too
 
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