Cole Palmer or Phil Foden?

ForssAwakens said:
I can’t believe we are potentially putting palmer in the super sub category here. He had 33 goal involvements last season and is on 10 this season. Both at the top of the pile.

He clearly isn’t a flat track bully, he’s contributed on the international stage. He’s clearly a special talent. He closed the gap to foden since the thread was created, it’s probably a matter of time before he surpasses him as a talent
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I’m not I’m saying that, I’m saying he hasn’t started big games and been a big performer for England. He’s had a couple of sub appearances where he’s done well and against a couple of minors. I’m simply not falling into the trap people did last year that Foden was the new Messi, or before that saka was better than neymar or before that that Grealish was Gazza reincarnate
 
Nano said:
I've always said that Foden is a great player to have in a team but he'll never be the main man, the driving force, the player that takes the ball and makes things happen on his own where Palmer is. I think if you put Palmer in any team in the league he'd still score goals where Foden would be ineffective playing alongside poor players.

That doesn't mean that Palmer is the better player of course. Palmer might not do what Pep wants Foden to do, he might not be as disciplined off the ball etc which he gets away with in a team like Chelsea.
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They’re both brilliant, but that’s my thoughts exactly. Put Cole Palmer in any team and he’ll do it.

I also prefer watching Palmer, bit more of a maverick.
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
They’re both brilliant, but that’s my thoughts exactly. Put Cole Palmer in any team and he’ll do it.

I also prefer watching Palmer, bit more of a maverick.
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I’d agree. And perhaps palmer has given up being a league winner or champions league winner in order to be that free spirit of a player that he is whereas Jack Grealish has given up his best asset to fit in with pep’s principles: interesting.
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
I’d agree. And perhaps palmer has given up being a league winner or champions league winner in order to be that free spirit of a player that he is whereas Jack Grealish has given up his best asset to fit in with pep’s principles: interesting.
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Yeah, very interesting! Great point.

I think the kids call it "ballers".
 
Sorry to post when I haven't read any of this thread, but... just watched Cole's performance v Newcastle today. He's world class, simple as that. Even with all the talent England currently have available, new manager should put his name down first and then build a team around him.
 
johnsmithsno2 said:
Sorry to post when I haven't read any of this thread, but... just watched Cole's performance v Newcastle today. He's world class, simple as that. Even with all the talent England currently have available, new manager should put his name down first and then build a team around him.
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There is kind of an obsession with when there’s a top player saying ‘we should build a team around him’. What does it actually mean? Or is just a football cliche? What England players have had a team built around them in the past? I hear it a lot but not sure it has any actual meaning.
 
parnabyscrosses said:
There is kind of an obsession with when there’s a top player saying ‘we should build a team around him’. What does it actually mean? Or is just a football cliche? What England players have had a team built around them in the past? I hear it a lot but not sure it has any actual meaning.
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It just means put your best player in their best position and play a style that gets the most out of them.

E.g. Juninho played best in the hole for us. Makes more sense to change the system entirely to accommodate that than trying to get him to be effective from centre mid or as a striker in a 442.
 
johnsmithsno2 said:
Even with all the talent England currently have available, new manager should put his name down first and then build a team around him
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Not a chance.

Only 1 week ago his performance at Liverpool was poor. In fact he was one of Chelsea's worst players on the pitch, when Chelsea played quite well on the whole.

Palmer is doing some amazing things, but he's yet to prove himself against the very best in the league.

He's still not scored a non pen goal or created a goal against the very best in the PL or either cup competition.

No way would I be building a team around someone who has yet to establish himself against the very best.

So far against:

Man City - 23/24 2 games played - 1 pen goal and a blank.
Man City - 24/25 1 game played - blank
Liverpool - 23/24 1 game played - blank
Liverpool - 24/25 1 game played - blank
Arsenal - 23/24 1 game played - 1 pen goal.
Arsenal - 24/25 - 0 games played as yet
Aston Villa - 23/24 2 games played - 2 blanks
Aston Villa - 24/25 - 0 games played as yet

2023/24
Man City - FA Cup Semi-final - Blank
Aston Villa - FA Cup 4th Round - Blank

Liverpool - EFL Cup FINAL - Blank

His trajectory has been very very good and he's on the right path.

But he still has far too many question marks before England should be 'building a team' around him.

He shouldn't even get in the first 11 at the minute.

He's a right winger or #10. And we have better players in both positions.

Saka is lightyears ahead of him at RW and Jude is our best #10.
 
Marvanelli said:
Not a chance.

Only 1 week ago his performance at Liverpool was poor. In fact he was one of Chelsea's worst players on the pitch, when Chelsea played quite well on the whole.

Palmer is doing some amazing things, but he's yet to prove himself against the very best in the league.

He's still not scored a non pen goal or created a goal against the very best in the PL or either cup competition.

No way would I be building a team around someone who has yet to establish himself against the very best.

So far against:

Man City - 23/24 2 games played - 1 pen goal and a blank.
Man City - 24/25 1 game played - blank
Liverpool - 23/24 1 game played - blank
Liverpool - 24/25 1 game played - blank
Arsenal - 23/24 1 game played - 1 pen goal.
Arsenal - 24/25 - 0 games played as yet
Aston Villa - 23/24 2 games played - 2 blanks
Aston Villa - 24/25 - 0 games played as yet

2023/24
Man City - FA Cup Semi-final - Blank
Aston Villa - FA Cup 4th Round - Blank

Liverpool - EFL Cup FINAL - Blank

His trajectory has been very very good and he's on the right path.

But he still has far too many question marks before England should be 'building a team' around him.

He shouldn't even get in the first 11 at the minute.

He's a right winger or #10. And we have better players in both positions.

Saka is lightyears ahead of him at RW and Jude is our best #10.
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You have to recognise though that he plays for a worse team than all those teams so him not scoring against those teams isn't a sign of him being not good enough. Better teams do better at stopping weaker teams stand out players. Foden and Bellingham have the benefit of not having to be the focal point for their teams and they get less attention from defenders.

Foden and Bellingham have 1 assist each this season. Bellingham looked dreadful when they were battered by Barcelona at the weekend and Foden hasn't started playing well yet this season so holding one bad game last week against Palmer seems harsh.
 
Nano said:
You have to recognise though that he plays for a worse team than all those teams so him not scoring against those teams isn't a sign of him being not good enough. Better teams do better at stopping weaker teams stand out players. Foden and Bellingham have the benefit of not having to be the focal point for their teams and they get less attention from defenders.

Foden and Bellingham have 1 assist each this season. Bellingham looked dreadful when they were battered by Barcelona at the weekend and Foden hasn't started playing well yet this season so holding one bad game last week against Palmer seems harsh.
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I agree that you can’t judge on one bad game but it’s not the only one, he was one of the worst performers for England a couple of weeks ago if I remember right.
Great player but nowhere near consistent enough yet.
I also struggle with all this ‘they’re a weaker/worse team’ talk in reference to Chelsea, they’re probably the biggest spenders in the league and won the Champions League only 3 years ago.
 
parnabyscrosses said:
I agree that you can’t judge on one bad game but it’s not the only one, he was one of the worst performers for England a couple of weeks ago if I remember right.
Great player but nowhere near consistent enough yet.
I also struggle with all this ‘they’re a weaker/worse team’ talk in reference to Chelsea, they’re probably the biggest spenders in the league and won the Champions League only 3 years ago.
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I didn't watch that game but wasn't he playing DM? Don't think anyone came out of that game looking good.

Chelsea have spent a fortune but they haven't spent it well and they've chopped and changed their manager, tactics and personnel. To be head and shoulders the best player in a squad that has had about £3bn spent on it is a pretty good achievement itself.
 
Nano said:
Foden and Bellingham have 1 assist each this season. Bellingham looked dreadful when they were battered by Barcelona at the weekend and Foden hasn't started playing well yet this season so holding one bad game last week against Palmer seems harsh.
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I'm not holding 1 bad game against Palmer. I'm stating that all his games against brilliant opponents have resulted in him being pretty much non-existent for Chelsea.

Hopefully that changes and he starts to dictate and be a factor for Chelsea in the bigger games, because that's where he'll be judged (rightly so).

But at the moment, there's no denying he's great against the rubbish.

To become a great player, you have to be great against the best. So far he's not done that.
 
Marvanelli said:
Not a chance.

Only 1 week ago his performance at Liverpool was poor. In fact he was one of Chelsea's worst players on the pitch, when Chelsea played quite well on the whole.

Palmer is doing some amazing things, but he's yet to prove himself against the very best in the league.

He's still not scored a non pen goal or created a goal against the very best in the PL or either cup competition.

No way would I be building a team around someone who has yet to establish himself against the very best.

So far against:

Man City - 23/24 2 games played - 1 pen goal and a blank.
Man City - 24/25 1 game played - blank
Liverpool - 23/24 1 game played - blank
Liverpool - 24/25 1 game played - blank
Arsenal - 23/24 1 game played - 1 pen goal.
Arsenal - 24/25 - 0 games played as yet
Aston Villa - 23/24 2 games played - 2 blanks
Aston Villa - 24/25 - 0 games played as yet

2023/24
Man City - FA Cup Semi-final - Blank
Aston Villa - FA Cup 4th Round - Blank

Liverpool - EFL Cup FINAL - Blank

His trajectory has been very very good and he's on the right path.

But he still has far too many question marks before England should be 'building a team' around him.

He shouldn't even get in the first 11 at the minute.

He's a right winger or #10. And we have better players in both positions.

Saka is lightyears ahead of him at RW and Jude is our best #10.
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If we are using goals as the only metric in big games against quality opposition, I think it would have been worthwhile mentioning the goal he scored in the Euro final 👍🏻

He started and finished the move for the only goal we managed against the eventual European Champions in a final.
 
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