Cole Palmer or Phil Foden?

Diego said:
Have no doubt he will be Englands most creative and exciting player at the World Cup. Whoever is in charge needs to get the best out of that squad
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The question now is Bellingham or palmer as number 10
I think palmer is incredible but I think Bellingham is a superstar performer so he plays number 10 for me.
Foden is somewhere on the bench.

Where do we play palmer though because I don’t want us to keep playing players as square pegs in round holes.
It doesn’t work and never has….ie scholes gerrard lampard etc etc
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
The question now is Bellingham or palmer as number 10
I think palmer is incredible but I think Bellingham is a superstar performer so he plays number 10 for me.
Foden is somewhere on the bench.

Where do we play palmer though because I don’t want us to keep playing players as square pegs in round holes.
It doesn’t work and never has….ie scholes gerrard lampard etc etc
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I'd play Bellingham a little bit deeper personally but I know not everyone agrees with that. I'd at least like Carsley to try it in the upcoming games with Palmer as 10.
 
Diego said:
I'd play Bellingham a little bit deeper personally but I know not everyone agrees with that. I'd at least like Carsley to try it in the upcoming games with Palmer as 10.
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Agree with you on Bellingham. play him alongside Rice but with the freedom to push forward.

Based purely on current form, my CM and forwards would be

Rice & Bellingham

Saka, Palmer, Barnes

Kane

Foden on his day is quality and would normally be my choice for the left, but needs to be playing more for City, something isn’t quite right there for me right now. A player who I’d actually bring back in the England fold is Harvey Barnes now he is over his injury, I like him coming off the left too, he is more direct than Grealish and offers something different but has an eye for goal.
 
Putting Jude as a #8 alongside Rice takes the best part of Jude away.

He was playing as Real Madrid's #9 at times last season because he is so effective at the top end of the pitch.

Playing Jude alongside Rice, just to accomodate Palmer would be absolutely mental.

And Rice isn't a CDM neither, he needs to be a #8. It's his best position too. Hence why Carsley has brought in Gomes to play deeper.

We need a proper CDM to allow Rice and Jude to get forward.

Our depth at #10 is frightening though, Jude, Foden, Palmer, Eze...even Maddison....in that order too.
 
Marvanelli said:
Putting Jude as a #8 alongside Rice takes the best part of Jude away.

He was playing as Real Madrid's #9 at times last season because he is so effective at the top end of the pitch.

Playing Jude alongside Rice, just to accomodate Palmer would be absolutely mental.

And Rice isn't a CDM neither, he needs to be a #8. It's his best position too. Hence why Carsley has brought in Gomes to play deeper.

We need a proper CDM to allow Rice and Jude to get forward.

Our depth at #10 is frightening though, Jude, Foden, Palmer, Eze...even Maddison....in that order too.
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Rogers will be ahead of Maddison and Eze soon. Probably from the next squad
 
Diego said:
Rogers will be ahead of Maddison and Eze soon. Probably from the next squad
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Yeah, his trajectory is pretty amazing. It's great to see too because he seems like a decent lad.

Happy to know we have been part of the reason too and have helped him achieve what his potential was/is.
 
Marvanelli said:
Putting Jude as a #8 alongside Rice takes the best part of Jude away.

He was playing as Real Madrid's #9 at times last season because he is so effective at the top end of the pitch.

Playing Jude alongside Rice, just to accomodate Palmer would be absolutely mental.

And Rice isn't a CDM neither, he needs to be a #8. It's his best position too. Hence why Carsley has brought in Gomes to play deeper.

We need a proper CDM to allow Rice and Jude to get forward.

Our depth at #10 is frightening though, Jude, Foden, Palmer, Eze...even Maddison....in that order too.
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It makes sense to say not to move Jude to where he's not in his strongest position but if he improves the midfield by a bigger margin then downgrading the 10 to one of the others then that makes the team better. I.e. having a 10/10 player in one position with a 4/10 in midfield isn't as good as having an 8/10 in both.

Pointless having a stacked bench that can't be used if the starting XI is weaker.
 
Nano said:
It makes sense to say not to move Jude to where he's not in his strongest position but if he improves the midfield by a bigger margin then downgrading the 10 to one of the others then that makes the team better. I.e. having a 10/10 player in one position with a 4/10 in midfield isn't as good as having an 8/10 in both.

Pointless having a stacked bench that can't be used if the starting XI is weaker.
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Yes, but we have options that make the midfield much better and stronger than 4/10, whilst keeping Jude in his best position.
 
Foden doesn’t do what Palmer is doing for that Chelsea team if he’d have been the one that went there. In the Euro’s Palmer did more off the bench than Foden did all tournament.

I think Foden looks very good in a Pep side, but out of that he’s average. Palmer stands out. It’s not even close for me.

I haven’t seen an English player this good in a long time.
 
He failed to score or assist in the 2-0 defeat to city on the opening day. Let’s see what he does in the next month away to Liverpool and home to Arsenal. Needs to dominate and score/create in these games. If he does that, then yes, he’s the real deal.
 
BoroMart said:
He failed to score or assist in the 2-0 defeat to city on the opening day. Let’s see what he does in the next month away to Liverpool and home to Arsenal. Needs to dominate and score/create in these games. If he does that, then yes, he’s the real deal.
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He is in a team that is weaker than those though. I don't think not scoring in specific games is a sign of anything. Not over such a short timescale anyway. Foden was player of the year last year but scored no goals or assists against Arsenal or Liverpool (or Chelsea). He got none for England. Most of his goals and assists were in games against weaker opposition. Those matches are usually close so only a few players do score/assist in them but it doesn't mean they aren't top players.
 
Nano said:
He is in a team that is weaker than those though. I don't think not scoring in specific games is a sign of anything. Not over such a short timescale anyway. Foden was player of the year last year but scored no goals or assists against Arsenal or Liverpool (or Chelsea). He got none for England. Most of his goals and assists were in games against weaker opposition. Those matches are usually close so only a few players do score/assist in them but it doesn't mean they aren't top players.
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You still need to prove it in the big games, that’s what makes good players great ones
 
BoroMart said:
You still need to prove it in the big games, that’s what makes good players great ones
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To be fair Palmer doesn't get to play as many big games as Foden, and seems to produce better individual results against the weaker teams, despite playing in a worse/ disjointed side. Foden didn't do a great deal in the Euro's, but Palmer did with his limited time and filling in anywhere (a bit like Foden), and obvs scored in the final too.

I think they're very different players tbh, I wouldn't say one is better than the other overall, but think Palmer will end up peaking higher.

Foden better with ball retention and link up outside the box, but Palmer streets ahead on being a goal threat and gets more assists, better in the box etc. Obv Foden doesn't need to be a massive goal threat with Haaland, but Palmer does with the Chelsea "strikers".

England need to find a way to get Foden, Bellingham and Palmer in the side, all in positions which suit, so Bellingham's going to have to go deeper, as his all round game is more suited to that.

Palmer could end up basically playing up front in a 2 with Kane maybe, and then you can let Kane drop deep if he needs to, as palmer can stay high. Palmer probably suited better to playing off Watkins or someone like that instead though.

Foden is extremely composed, but Palmer is literally ice cold, his celebration is not wrong etc. Can see Palmer getting prem player of the year this year.
 
Andy_W said:
To be fair Palmer doesn't get to play as many big games as Foden, and seems to produce better individual results against the weaker teams, despite playing in a worse/ disjointed side. Foden didn't do a great deal in the Euro's, but Palmer did with his limited time and filling in anywhere (a bit like Foden), and obvs scored in the final too.

I think they're very different players tbh, I wouldn't say one is better than the other overall, but think Palmer will end up peaking higher.

Foden better with ball retention and link up outside the box, but Palmer streets ahead on being a goal threat and gets more assists, better in the box etc. Obv Foden doesn't need to be a massive goal threat with Haaland, but Palmer does with the Chelsea "strikers".

England need to find a way to get Foden, Bellingham and Palmer in the side, all in positions which suit, so Bellingham's going to have to go deeper, as his all round game is more suited to that.

Palmer could end up basically playing up front in a 2 with Kane maybe, and then you can let Kane drop deep if he needs to, as palmer can stay high. Palmer probably suited better to playing off Watkins or someone like that instead though.

Foden is extremely composed, but Palmer is literally ice cold, his celebration is not wrong etc. Can see Palmer getting prem player of the year this year.
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Agreed Foden is in a better team, but apparently he was the saviour of English football a year ago and would win us the euros, but he’s been underwhelming in an England shirt. Hopefully palmer will do better but it’s pure guesswork until he actually proves it
 
BoroMart said:
Agreed Foden is in a better team, but apparently he was the saviour of English football a year ago and would win us the euros, but he’s been underwhelming in an England shirt. Hopefully palmer will do better but it’s pure guesswork until he actually proves it
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Foden still is one of the saviours, no doubt about that, or he's going to need to be, but we're going to need a few of those, so he's in there with Bellingham, Palmer and all of those are just ahead of Saka for me. I love Saka but he just tends to go quiet in some games. Saka's place is not under threat from these three though, as none of them want to play Saka's position.

I just think it's obvious, Foden left, Bellingham deeper, Palmer higher. They ned to find a way to figure that out, if they're as good as everyone says they will.

If that doesn't work then we need to start thinking about how we can play Palmer up front, but he has to play, he's the most in form player we have, and arguably was in the lead in to the Euro's too.

I know people want Bellingham at 10 and say it's worked for real Madrid etc, but real Madrid can beat 95% of those league teams playing players in any position.

A player turning it on for Chelsea in that position at every opportunity is doing a better job than Real Madrid in that position, unless the real Madrid player is dominating those big games too, but Bellingham was quiet in the latter part of the year and latter stages of the CL imo. Bellingham needs to do more as a 10 for England I think, if he's got Palmer and Foden knocking on the door.
 
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