Brexit - positives Remainers acknowledge, negatives Leavers acknowledge

Millbrook said:
I cannot imagine why that is the only alternative available nor why you would presume to project such an opinion on me.
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Because any Tory government will always follow neoliberalism. I'm not projecting anything either. Vote Tory means voting for more of that not less. The only man to really propose something radically different was Jeremy Corbyn and the media did a hatchet job on him, as their owners hated the idea.
 
Nero said:
Because any Tory government will always follow neoliberalism. I'm not projecting anything either. Vote Tory means voting for more of that not less. The only man to really propose something radically different was Jeremy Corbyn and the media did a hatchet job on him, as their owners hated the idea.
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My comments were about the EU not our domestic government so I still don't see the relevance except your need to rant.
 
NYboro said:
I see it growing stronger as people realise the need to unite. Brexit will only highlight that as the UK becomes a complete backwater globally.
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Absolutely 100%. The French, Germans, Dutch and others are fully committed. After all, the main achievement of the EU is to keep peace in an area that tore itself to pieces with war for hundreds of years. That alone shows what can be achieved by working together.
 
SuperStu said:
Probably right. But they'll be back won't they? Always are. We'll get 5-10 years of something else eventually, and then another 20 year tory gov. And the something else will probably be as close to tory policies as possible anyway.
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I'm not so sure, I can see them not winning the next election (even though they would be the biggest party) and then them having a meltdown, having a split where some want to go further right/ or stay as they are now, but a majority realising what a mess they have been this time, so going more central.
 
Andy_W said:
I'm not so sure, I can see them not winning the next election (even though they would be the biggest party) and then them having a meltdown, having a split where some want to go further right/ or stay as they are now, but a majority realising what a mess they have been this time, so going more central.
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You're an optimist/wishful thinker!!
 
On another note. I was reading earlier that £1.5 billion is planned for Johnson's "levelling up". This is to be spent in areas that are now £25 billion worse off because of a decade of austerity.
 
Millbrook said:
The EU wants to be a supranational state not just an organisation. I didn't think it was beneficial to move that far.
I'm glad we are out for that reason but would have preferred an approach like Norway.

Yes there are problems with the transition but it will be a number of years before we know the full effects of leaving the EU.
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You support Scottish and Welsh independence then?
 
SuperStu said:
You're an optimist/wishful thinker!!
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Nah, I'm just quite good at reading voter trends for the centre (between Labour and Tories), and that's where I have drifted around in the past. I'm now way more towards Labour, largely as the Tories went away from me, and Labour came towards me (once I know Corbyn was going anyway, not that I'm against him, I just know they couldn't win the centre with him). Then it's just a numbers game, the centre is what stops or gives majorities, it's impossible without it.

I think the Tories are going to trend down for a couple of years, effectively because I can't see any reason why they would increase, and I can think of a few big reasons why they would go down. They will gradually lose some of the borrowed Brexit votes anyway, no matter what, as they've already "won". Then couple that with Brexit already a nightmare, and only going to get worse, more will jump ship, even some Tory voters where Brexit wasn't a priority (not without the single market anyway). Most Tory voters aren't daft, but they are quite selfish, as soon as they see their businesses/ employment/ finances taking a hit they will want back in the SM/ CU.

When Brexit totally fails and they can't hide behind the pandemic, then the Tories lose, and when they're losing they don't take it well, especially the children on the far right.

Although I didn't mind Corbyn, I knew Labour couldn't win with him, as he would never get the key centre votes.
I said back in Feb-Apr, when the Tories were massively trending up, that it was due to vaccines, that it would be short-lived, and by Autumn/ Winter it would be a different story, and most on here said I was nuts :LOL: It was plain to see the vaccine was the driver, which was the eye of a hurricane. The thing is we wouldn't have needed to be ahead on the vaccine if we had managed the pandemic correctly, and the level of this failure will be fully known in a year or two.
 
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