Brexit - positives Remainers acknowledge, negatives Leavers acknowledge

r00fie1 said:
"Immigration numbers are as high as they`ve ever been" - AND?
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Sorry thought it was obvious...

the point is Johnson talks about right wing policies like controlling immigration, but hasn't actually implemented any. They dabble at the edges to keep their vote in line, but they're in a precarious position. If there is an austerity policy it's one based on inflation. Inflation is a handy way for governments to get out of a sovereign debt problem.

If Labour could develop an approach that kept their open borders post-Modernists on side while attacking the Tories on lying to the Tory base about immigration etc., they might just win back those old Labour seats. It would be fine line to walk in todays social media obsessed society.
 
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Scrote said:
Plenty of people in positions of Leave authority (presumably with brains) suggested quite strongly that there would be financial rewards. Many people voted to secure £350 Million per week for the NHS, for instance.

2. Considering we're currently blaming the EU for fishing problems, import problems, travel problems and the small matter of an Irish border, I don't think you can pretend that things aren't being placed at the feet of the EU.

3. They're worse than "little Englanders" - they're bleeding the country dry. They don't give a monkeys about the UK and we're slowly becoming a banana republic (but without the bananas). Do you really think anything has improved?
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Ironically they ended up spending rather more than 350 million per week. More like 850 million a week in fact (according to statista.com). Driven by Covid obviously. There is a plan to meet the commitment, but best laid plans and all that.

"I don't think you can pretend that things aren't being placed at the feet of the EU." I was thinking more long term - and I doubt that many people think the EU messed things up. They were just better negotiators.

As for bleeding the country dry you ain't seen nothing yet. By the time we reach carbon neutrality we'll all be asset-less serfs. Returning to a pre-industrial world.
 
SmallTown said:
We were a net contributer to the EU. That is a positive as its saving as a small amount of money.

The negative, of course, is that brexit has cost the economy so much more.

Yes there are many positives of brexit. The damage of the negatives outweighs them, and by a significant amount
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Enjoy the thrill of brexit.
Knock on all of your neighbours doors and tell them to " f*** right off when they answer their door.
Get street level brexit done.
 
Experience the thrill of the Greece debt crisis.
Borrow as much as possible from payday loan sharks.
Tell them to f*** off when they ring wanting to know why you've not made any repayments !
 
On a personal level the only positive is I no longer travel abroad for work. This means I avoid the embarrassment of being European, but queuing with non-European lines at Schiphol.
 
Ingleby_Flash said:
Yes it is now, but for months they’ve been banging on about it triumphantly in response to any awkward questions.

” So Matt you’ve been caught snogging an assistant and squeezing her ærse on cctv”
” yes but we’ve delivered 70 million vaccines”
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I know, I just want to make sure people don't fall for this particular lie anymore
 
br14 said:
Sorry thought it was obvious...

the point is Johnson talks about right wing policies like controlling immigration, but hasn't actually implemented any. They dabble at the edges to keep their vote in line, but they're in a precarious position. If there is an austerity policy it's one based on inflation. Inflation is a handy way for governments to get out of a sovereign debt problem.

If Labour could develop an approach that kept their open borders post-Modernists on side while attacking the Tories on lying to the Tory base about immigration etc., they might just win back those old Labour seats. It would be fine line to walk in todays social media obsessed society.
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Johnson waved the Flag of Union at Europe, as if pointing a flintlock over the Channel.
Johnson is the British version of the bumbling spray-tan in the USA.
You are right that he has contradicted everything he claims he stood for.
His u-turns would make him a winning contestant on Strictly...(y)
 
A benefit is we could send all those turkey pluckers, strawberry pickers and cafe/bar staff home, creating jobs for British people.

A downside is we had to grant them all visas to let them back in, once we established we were fooked without them.
 
I don't think my sovereigntyometer has ever read higher, it's off the scale, I can't help but feel that we now have too much sovereignty and that all this extra sovereignty is causing problems for the royal family, is it mere coincidence that Prince Phillip has sadly passed, the Queen has been ill, Andrew has started to sweat again, Harry and Meghan have emigrated, Charles has Cumberland Sausage fingers and Kate's waist has become a Richard Madeley obsession ?
 
American_Mary said:
I don't think my sovereigntyometer has ever read higher, it's off the scale, I can't help but feel that we now have too much sovereignty and that all this extra sovereignty is causing problems for the royal family, is it mere coincidence that Prince Phillip has sadly passed, the Queen has been ill, Andrew has started to sweat again, Harry and Meghan have emigrated, Charles has Cumberland Sausage fingers and Kate's waist has become a Richard Madeley obsession ?
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We'll have to start dumping raw sovereignty in the rivers at this rate
 
SmallTown said:
I think what we can all agree on now though is that brexit has been an abject failure and we are a weaker more remote country with citizens with fewer rights than before
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Yes but middle england has always been a bunch of snobby, I've got a better car than you, small minded set of b***ds.
Hope they're happy now no trade deal with the yanks, greenwash net zero which means we continue burning fossil fuels, no friends in Europe trade war looming where does it end.
And what are the opposition in parliament doing ?
 
Borothruandthru said:
Yes but middle england has always been a bunch of snobby, I've got a better car than you, small minded set of b***ds.
Hope they're happy now no trade deal with the yanks, greenwash net zero which means we continue burning fossil fuels, no friends in Europe trade war looming where does it end.
And what are the opposition in parliament doing ?
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I don't think it was the so called people of Middle England who are to blame. It was the majority of struggling people in post-industrial Northern England who swung the vote. Those people hammered by austerity were given the EU as a scapegoat and voted leave.

How else can it be explained that areas such as the North East voted leave in a massive way? Wasn't Hartlepool something like 70%? The same Hartlepool that has seen courts closed, A&E shut, social services reduced and all because of the Tory's austerity strategy.
 
br14 said:
Given that the objective was to "Take Back Control", Brexit was a success the moment it came into force. There needs be no financial reward, nor did anyone with a brain suggest there would be, because the objective was to have democratic accountability within the UK.

You can argue the toss about how effective is that accountability, but anything that goes wrong from now on cannot be placed at the feet of the EU. It's entirely a British cockup. You get what you vote for. What happens to state finances is largely a question of how the country is managed.

The fact immigration numbers are as high as they've ever been and that government borrowing is off the scale in historical terms, should provide solace to those of you worried the UK might end up with an actual conservative government full of "little Englanders" - turns out they're as much into Open Borders as George Soros and as far removed from traditional Tories as is possible. They do talk a lot about immigration however!
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I must have imagined the bus and all the talk of free trade?

I'm also not minded to sift through catflaporama, but I've no doubt you were one of the people who trumpeted the financial benefits of Brexit.
 
American_Mary said:
I don't think my sovereigntyometer has ever read higher, it's off the scale, I can't help but feel that we now have too much sovereignty and that all this extra sovereignty is causing problems for the royal family, is it mere coincidence that Prince Phillip has sadly passed, the Queen has been ill, Andrew has started to sweat again, Harry and Meghan have emigrated, Charles has Cumberland Sausage fingers and Kate's waist has become a Richard Madeley obsession ?
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Having a royal family to look up to, pay lots of money to, is rather like a pervert punter having a dominatrix to humiliate and empty his bank balance.
It makes sense to someone but we're a laughing stock to the rest of the world.
The english revolution happened about a hundred years too early to be effective and we ended up with a fudge whereby the establishment remained at the top with an illusion of giving up power to the plebs.
 
Nero said:
I don't think it was the so called people of Middle England who are to blame. It was the majority of struggling people in post-industrial Northern England who swung the vote. Those people hammered by austerity were given the EU as a scapegoat and voted leave.

How else can it be explained that areas such as the North East voted leave in a massive way? Wasn't Hartlepool something like 70%? The same Hartlepool that has seen courts closed, A&E shut, social services reduced and all because of the Tory's austerity strategy.
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I kind of agree. I don't think middle England voted brexit. They have their holidays in the dordogne to protect.

Seems to me it was poorer areas, areas that will struggle more now we are isolated and have a shrinking economy.

Which I really find bizarre
 
SmallTown said:
I kind of agree. I don't think middle England voted brexit. They have their holidays in the dordogne to protect.

Seems to me it was poorer areas, areas that will struggle more now we are isolated and have a shrinking economy.

Which I really find bizarre
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The north east bald headed gammons all seemed really angry for some reason.
The pubs are full of them. Has weatherspoons been putting alapetia tablets in the cheapest hogwash lager by any chance ?
 
I think the effect on the work force has been double edged… while there’s benefit in more vacancies and a supposed uplift in wages, the negative is the shortfall in skilled labour and people willing to do lower paid work…
 
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