Blair & Brown: The New Labour Revolution

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Just finished watching it. Thought it was very interesting stuff.
Can’t help but feel that poor old Gordon got a bum deal, and bum luck!
I reckon if you were to ask the public who is the worst PM of recent times, he’d possibly come back as top answer even above Cameron, Johnson and May, which is just astounding. Especially given what he did regarding the financial crisis, which was basically leading the world through it.

I remember reading this board at the time and some of the absolute nonsense written about Brown was unbelievable.

I read similar during the referendum and the last couple of elections from the same contributors, with names changed (but style so easily recognisable) to protect the unhinged.

The downfall of the nation over this period is incredible, and not one reasonable argument given for the choices made.

I'm sorry but 'I don't trust' without a logical explanation isn't good enough.

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

Theoretically - If TB was to replace SKS I would put good money on Labour winning a landslide at the next election.

Totally agree!

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

Tony Blair is absolutely toxic now.

This is entirely down to Iraq.

Iraq was a failure of best practice in reasoning and critical thinking and the decision making process.

You don't make your decision before you have gathered the evidence, you let the evidence lead you to a decision. You don't narrow your group down in number and fill it with people who agree with you, as Blair did with his sofa government, you take in opinion from a wide range of sources with diverse viewpoints and that gives you your best chance of making the right decision. It is a longer process, but at least it is likely to lead to the right decision in the end.

TB absolutely Toxic ; What complete and Utter rubbish from an ultra left num nut with his head in the sand
Your part of the reason Labour keep losing by cheering on losers like miliband (who changed the voting rules ensuring left leaning leaders for a generation and defeat) and corbyn make us a laughing stock because the country wants centre ground politics
Not we are stuck with the nice Keir Starmer but no personality to defeat this kabal of a so called government
It’s personality needed to capture the imagination of the public
I don’t give me Andy burnham or the bitter ginger one ; our foul mouthed current deputy awesome Angela….
Even more left wing from both of them
The press will nail him and her….

Unless the Tories implode on the state of gas prices, lack of a plan for drivers, farm pickers and meat workers affecting the economy in a massive way WE ARE STUCK WITH THIS LIT OF UTTER CROOKS FOR A LONG TIME TO COME

 

[jeff_potato]

I watched the first episode last night and found it very interesting. Chimed well with Mandelson's book The Third Man. What they did is probably also needed now, as I think that some of Brown's economic policies on state assistance would ease the upcoming issue of widespread demand for higher wages without forcing inflation through knock-on costs. (e.g tax credits, free school meals, etc)

I'm only in my thirties, so don't know how 80s/90s electorates compare, but I do get the feeling that today people expect, in a land of approximately 70 million people, a manifesto specifically and personally tailored to them exactly, or that's it: they couldn't possibly vote for anyone. Were people more willing to commit to a 'best fit' back then?

 

[bear66]

I watched the first episode last night and found it very interesting. Chimed well with Mandelson's book The Third Man. What they did is probably also needed now, as I think that some of Brown's economic policies on state assistance would ease the upcoming issue of widespread demand for higher wages without forcing inflation through knock-on costs. (e.g tax credits, free school meals, etc)

I'm only in my thirties, so don't know how 80s/90s electorates compare, but I do get the feeling that today people expect, in a land of approximately 70 million people, a manifesto specifically and personally tailored to them exactly, or that's it: they couldn't possibly vote for anyone. Were people more willing to commit to a 'best fit' back then?

At the last election I compared '97 Labour manifesto with the current one There was very little detail with far more platitudes in '97 - very similar to the last Tory manifesto!

 

[Glover_elbow]

Blair is finished as a politician Iraq, now the tax avoidance disclosed through the Panama papers. He is absolutely toxic particularly to the majority of labour party members and he is probably hated by them as much as Boris is. Some of the Labour polices were undoubtedly good for the country under blair but I would add they didn't recognise the extent the North had suffered from previous governments. To me they were as London centric as all the others.

 

[Cardiffdaffs]

Hague and Duncan-Smith, I thought were a bit weak as leader material. Cameron was a tougher opponent and Johnson. Maybe its the Etonian education.

Duncan -smith and Hague were “a bit weak”? Tney were a lot worse than that. They were hopeless. Especially “don’t underestimate a quiet man” IDS. We did IDS. You were even more incompetent than we thought possible.

Cameron I just think will go down as the worst PM ever. Won’t be remembered for anything but bringing in Brexit, rolling up his sleeves and tucking his tie in on some horrendous PR stunt and now for the astonishing sleaze and corruptness that has been revealed about him with Greensill. Oh and he left a baby in a pub and shagged a pig.

 

[TeessideCleveland]

I don't know how Blair and Brown would do now - as the Brexit supporters will hate them - but I'd certainly prefer them to the current government

 

[Redwurzel]

Brown didn't seem to be PM for long and from the Autumn of 2008 to the spring of 2010 the UK was caught in a big economic downtown that would have damaged anyone in power. Government's deficit was shooting up as spending went up and revenue went down. The foundation of which had been laid down by Blair, Major and even Thatcher.

I know it was just one incident but I remember Brown being quite vicious in his verbal remarks about a pensioner in Rochdale who was complaining about immigration affecting wages and jobs, calling the woman an ignorant racist behind her back. I can understand him diagreeing with her, but he showed no interest in understanding her position and she appeared an ordinary working class woman, probably normally votes Labour. To me he appeared out of touch at that point with a key element of his potential/actual support and their concerns. I also think he was caught out by the switch of Scottish voters from Labour to the SNP. The switchers are very critical of Brown, who was the only really Scottish PM since the 1930s.

 

[uncle_rico]

New Labour between 97 and 2005 were far better than the successive Tory governments since 2011. Sadly, Blair shot himself in the foot over Iraq and Brown had to deal with a financial crisis 30 years in the making. I think a Brown government would have been a great thing and the country a much different place today.

”Shot himself in the foot” is a bit lenient considering he was effectively responsible for thousands upon thousands of deaths and people displaced.

 

[uncle_rico]

A huge amount of the electorate were either teens, children or not even born when this was happening! Another huge amount won't care less over something that happened so long ago.

Oh I guess we can just forget the many many dead then?

 

[Nero]

”Shot himself in the foot” is a bit lenient considering he was effectively responsible for thousands upon thousands of deaths and people displaced.

The Americans were invading regardless, so it's not that simple. It's now on record that Blair was convinced about the case for invasion by dodgy intelligence from a person codenamed Curveball. It was that account that the Neocons in the Bush administration used to press the case. Blair, made the decision to back America having stood with them immediately after 11th of September. He was showing loyalty but it was the wrong decision.

There's no doubt invading Iraq was completely wrong and no doubt resulted in tearing apart the country. For that Blair is rightly condemned.

 

[Pak_Doo_Ik]

Just one little question, didn't Blair win an election after the Iraq war???

 

[Otto42]

Just one little question, didn't Blair win an election after the Iraq war???

Spot on. Labour didn't lose in 2010 because of Iraq, it was because voters preferred the more charismatic Clegg and Cameron to the dour Brown. Only the really politically engaged....maybe 20 to 25% of the population... vote on policy, with about 30 to 40% not bothering that gives a big proportion voting for the people they like best!

 

[Lefty]

TB absolutely Toxic ; What complete and Utter rubbish from an ultra left num nut with his head in the sand
Your part of the reason Labour keep losing by cheering on losers like miliband (who changed the voting rules ensuring left leaning leaders for a generation and defeat) and corbyn make us a laughing stock because the country wants centre ground politics
Not we are stuck with the nice Keir Starmer but no personality to defeat this kabal of a so called government
It’s personality needed to capture the imagination of the public
I don’t give me Andy burnham or the bitter ginger one ; our foul mouthed current deputy awesome Angela….
Even more left wing from both of them
The press will nail him and her….

Unless the Tories implode on the state of gas prices, lack of a plan for drivers, farm pickers and meat workers affecting the economy in a massive way WE ARE STUCK WITH THIS LIT OF UTTER CROOKS FOR A LONG TIME TO COME

I might be a num nut but it’s going to come as a surprise to one or two on here ( @bumface @SuperStu ) that I am ultra left.

It’s a withering put down mind you , just slightly confusing what you think I should or shouldn’t be for.

 

[Lefty]

Just one little question, didn't Blair win an election after the Iraq war???

Yes, but the invasion was in 2003 and the election was in 2005, at which point the invasion had been a success and the occupation hadn’t quite developed into the poorly thought out disaster it became and the casualties hadn’t mounted.

By 2007 it had and also a lot more of the truth behind the invasion decision and intelligence had come out, or perhaps it is more accurate to say with the mounting casualties more of the public were taking notice. Anyway it led to him having to go and his reputation has never recovered.

 

[festa5]

I might be a num nut but it’s going to come as a surprise to one or two on here ( @bumface @SuperStu ) that I am ultra left.

It’s a withering put down mind you , just slightly confusing what you think I should or shouldn’t be for.

To be fair your username is "lefty".

Case closed as far as I'm concerned you commy b****d

 

[Pak_Doo_Ik]

Yes, but the invasion was in 2003 and the election was in 2005, at which point the invasion had been a success and the occupation hadn’t quite developed into the poorly thought out disaster it became and the casualties hadn’t mounted.

By 2007 it had and also a lot more of the truth behind the invasion decision and intelligence had come out, or perhaps it is more accurate to say with the mounting casualties more of the public were taking notice. Anyway it led to him having to go and his reputation has never recovered.

Oh sorry Lefty, for a minute there I thought you said the invasion was a success.

 

[bumface]

I might be a num nut but it’s going to come as a surprise to one or two on here ( @bumface @SuperStu ) that I am ultra left.

It’s a withering put down mind you , just slightly confusing what you think I should or shouldn’t be for.

I'm in agreement with Lefty here. That is something that I never thought that I'd find myself typing on here. It'll probably never happen again so make the most of it. Lefty definitely isn't 'ultra left'. Not even 'left' at all from my point of view. Very few people on here are. And he's not a 'numb-nut' either. Maybe just a bit of a 'Silly Billy' or a 'nincompoop'.

 

[SuperStu]

TB absolutely Toxic ; What complete and Utter rubbish from an ultra left num nut with his head in the sand

It's mad to me that anyone saying Blair isn't toxic could accuse others of having their head in the sand.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1445773120623677446

He'd be worse even than Starmer. And an absolute gift to the tories.

Just one little question, didn't Blair win an election after the Iraq war???

Blairs last election was 2005, the Chilcot report wasn't out until 2016.

miliband (who changed the voting rules ensuring left leaning leaders for a generation and defeat)

The right of the party pushed Miliband to do OMOV back then, because they were under the impression they were really popular and would always win. Also those are the rules Starmer's been elected under so hardly ensures a left wing leader. One out of two so far.