Are Engel and Bangura good enough at the moment?

[Big_Nothing]

I see this being raised in a number of threads and it seems to be splitting the opinion of the fanbase. Some even calling for O'Brien to be reinstated at left back when fit. Some said Bangura was signed because the club had concerns after Engel turned up.

How do we feel at the moment? Giles wasn't the best defensively but his output going forward and tightness of his passing made up for it. Are we convinced either of these lads are better defensively than he is? I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect them to be better offensively.

It does bring into question the impact playing a central midfielder out of position at fullback over natural fullbacks would have on their confidence. We ideally want Engel and/or Bangura to establish themselves as top end Championship players but currently I don't see it and I think most fans who have an eye for the game are seeing the same thing. We want points on the board but we also want those players to become assets.

It's a tricky one. It almost reminds me of interchanging Jones and Turnbull in goal in the hope one of them would grasp the opportunity and develop beyond their ceiling, it didn't happen, it cost us goals and ultimately our Premier League status. We already have a lot of points to make up from the mistakes of Engel.

What's the general consensus?

And before anyone accuses me of digging them out or risking hurting their feelings if they read the board etc... I'm simply asking the opinions of others on an issue regarding the team, on a football forum dedicated to that team!

 

[Air Resistance]

Engel had a shakey start but has largely been excellent since. More than good enough. Bangura has shown flashes but has been up and down, which isn’t surprising given his inconsistent playing time.

O’Brien is just one of those great players who has attributes to play anywhere, he’d be in my starting 11 when everyone was fit but probably in the centre.

 

[Big_Nothing]

Engel had a shakey start but has largely been excellent since. More than good enough. Bangura has shown flashes but has been up and down, which isn’t surprising given his inconsistent playing time.

O’Brien is just one of those great players who has attributes to play anywhere, he’d be in my starting 11 when everyone was fit but probably in the centre.

I wouldn't go as far as excellent, we've conceded goals from his side of the pitch and he has shown some poor ball control and loose passing.

That said, I don't expect him to be Jordi Alba so perhaps I'm being a tad harsh.

 

[festa5]

I think they've both been OK on average. Both playing in a new league that is a step up and much faster than they're used to.

They've both had good and bad moments.

There's also a couple of mitigating factors for the inconsistent performances:

We've never had a settled back 4, or team even.

And there's a definite lack of protection for the full back on that side. Whereas on the right, Jones works his nuts off tracking back.

As air resistance says, I don't think calls for O'brien are necessarily about slamming Bangura and Engel. It's an acknowledgement of how good O'brien is and wanting him on the pitch without leaving out Hackney or Howson out.

 

[Glover_elbow]

Ive said it numerous times but the club dropped the ball after wrongly assuming giles would sign in the summer. We should never have bought two left backs without experience of championship football one experienced pro and a development player would have been a better mix.

Giles had much better protection than engel but neither to me are good enough defensively. Giles has shown he is not upto premier league standard this season and engel whilst havng a few decent games lacks the pace to ever become a Premier league or even a top championship player. Bangura not seen enough to make a judgement but he does seem quicker than engel.
For me we cant play engel and clarke as the left centreback engel plays very high up the pitch and theres not enough recovery pace from either making us hugely susceptible on the counter . When rvb played as the left cb he had the pace to cover for the marauding engel and Engel looked a better player. I would also not play Greenwood on the left as soon as alternatives are available hes too indisciplined and leaves any left back exposed.
After Engels poor display at Coventry i would give bangura a run of games.

As for obrien i think his performances at left back were hugely overated we did concede a lot of goals with him there.

 

[NorthStand95]

I think this position will be one of the most concerning for Carrick. I remember the game against Hull. I counted 6x Engel had the opportunity to cross or cut it back to create and he failed on 5x. He is poor going forward and often gets caught in behind. He then gave Bangura a chance against Swansea but then changed it again against Port Vale. However I think in the system we play you rely on them getting some sort of protection. Giles was the same and unfortunately players like Greenwood often don’t track back and cover so they are more open currently.

 

[Alwaysaborolad]

The fact that we are having this debate says it all,
Both have strengths and both have weaknesses, if both are fit to play, we don't know who Carrick will pick to play, because of their inconsistencies.

Some on here are still pining for Giles wow! He is not a left back, and paying over 5m for him would have been a huge mistake, Rob Edwards and his training staff didn't take long to suss him out , there biggest transfer purchase, and sits warming the bench most weeks.

Left back position is a problem and will need sorting, if not for this season, then for next, we need a stable/solid back four playing together week in week out.

 

[The Disciple]

Engel makes a lot of very basic errors - haven’t really seen that from Bangura so far, although he hasn’t played as much. I think Bangura has a lot more to offers in an attacking sense as he has genuine pace and can take people on. He’d be my first choice over Engel

 

[Cambsred]

It's mad the expectations of a left back nowadays really isn't it.

I think we play in a way that we really expose the left back. Unlike the right side I don't think they get much cover.

Even the way we press the ball leaves the left back in more of a central position and gives the opposition more width if they are go enough to transfer it.

So far all of our left backs have been heroes and villains. Certainly wouldnt be replacing them yet. We have bigger holes in our squad and depth.

 

[h_m_boro]

As stated above, both have shown flashes of being good Championship players. And both have have looked Sunday league at times.

Technically, at times Engel has looked to be lacking the basic skills. Bangura has more physical attributes but looks like he is never in full control.

Both inconsistent, but sharing playing time in a team that chops and changes due to the injuries.....suppose there is that mitigating factor.

Need to see them both play a number of games in a fully fit/firing team to properly assess them.

Both 5/10 for me.

 

[Tryasize10]

I've seen enough from both of them to think they are good enough.

I've also seen enough from both of them are at a championship club that has relatively limited spending power.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

I don't know a player in the side who isn't making mistakes, and some a lot more than either of these. I do think Carrick needs to make his mind up over which one is his first choice and give them a run in the side.

 

[Jonathan]

I like Engel, he had a rough start that peaked at Sheffield Wednesday but I think since then he’s been good. I think generally down to good management from Carrick in how he handled that situation, and also shows some character from Engel himself. I disagree with the above that he’s poor going forward. He’s got 3 assists which I think is fine taking in to account how poor our finishing has been all season, cause he’s created loads more chances, 17 to be specific. James Justin only has 1 assist, and Ricardo Pereira has 3, and neither really create that many more chances, and those are like the top end full backs in the division other than a Leif Davis who’s having a season like Ryan Giles. I think he’s got good delivery by and large, good technique striking a ball. His pass accuracy is around 80%. Going off his statistics he’s absolutely fine.

Defensively is where he struggles more but so did Giles, it’s the trade off and risk you take with full backs in how Carrick wants them to play.

Bangura I’m still not sure on just cause I feel like I haven’t seen enough of him yet. But he hasn’t stood out as particularly bad either.

 

[Marvanelli]

I can't help but compare them to Giles - which I know is wrong - but I feel like Giles set a standard of what Carrick will want in a LB and what we will probably need to gain promotion.

Neither of them are close to Giles....so far.

They are both decent enough LB's who have frailties in their game.

Maybe they will improve as the season goes on as it's their first time playing in England, but so far the jury is out on both I think.

 

[Low_Key]

i like both of them. but the lack of cover in front of them ,as mentioned above, is hampering them both at the moment.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

I can't help but compare them to Giles - which I know is wrong - but I feel like Giles set a standard of what Carrick will want in a LB and what we will probably need to gain promotion.

Neither of them are close to Giles....so far.

They are both decent enough LB's who have frailties in their game.

Maybe they will improve as the season goes on as it's their first time playing in England, but so far the jury is out on both I think.

Neither are trying to provide chances for a player of the calibre of Akpom or Archer. Giles had as many mistakes in him defensively as the pair of them.

 

[Marvanelli]

Neither are trying to provide chances for a player of the calibre of Akpom or Archer. Giles had as many mistakes in him defensively as the pair of them.

Yep, Giles was far from perfect and in fact, defensively, he wasn't great. However, he certainly made up for that in attack.

Neither of Engel or Bangura have shown brilliant defensive skills neither though, as yet.

 

[Bruce]

Engel, Bangura and Latte Lath demonstrate just how long it takes for an overseas player to adapt to the Championship. All of them have shown potential but right now they're probably all at a lower end Championship standard. Latte Lath has done OK but you can compare him to Haji Wright who signed for Coventry. Haji Wright is about the same age, cost more but is vastly more experienced than ELL. It still took him a good 3 months to adapt Coventry have had to change their system of play but he's flying now.

It makes it hard to judge who will come good.

 

[TeaCider]

I can't help but compare them to Giles - which I know is wrong - but I feel like Giles set a standard of what Carrick will want in a LB and what we will probably need to gain promotion.

Neither of them are close to Giles....so far.

They are both decent enough LB's who have frailties in their game.

Maybe they will improve as the season goes on as it's their first time playing in England, but so far the jury is out on both I think.

Carrick likes them to create goalscoring opportunities.

Engel has the same number of assists as Giles managed across the same opening period of games (both got 3 assists in their first 16 starts) and he's not got an Akpom getting on the end of everything.
Even if you limit it to the period under Carrick, it's 4 assists for Giles in the first 16 starts compared to 3 assists for Engel.

He's also looked far more like scoring than Giles ever did, barring that one own goal.

 

[lostinyorkshire]

They cant defend which is the problem.

The second goal against coventry was typical of how naive we are. We went back and forwards tonleft back and were weak out on the touchline. it was pathetic

The first goal dear me Engel where were you heading that son?