Centralscrutinizer
Well-known member
Neither are perfect so they aren't good enough for a lot of our supporters 
Are Engel and Bangura good enough at the moment?
- Thread starter Big_Nothing
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Marvanelli
Well-known member
Yea, out the two we have I think I favour Engel as I think he has the edge going forward. He certainly can pick a pass out. The pass to Rogers against West Brom looked so easy, yet no doubt many players wouldn't have picked him out, which ended up being a decisive pass.
Still don't see him having the same quality of delivery as Giles, but hopefully I'm wrong. It's still early days to be fair.
Depends what you mean by good enough. They aren't the worst players in the squad and they have room for improvement. It's a new league for both of them so they need a bit of time and they have different strengths and weaknesses so they will be judged differently. If we're talking about being a capable championship player then they both have potential to be that. If we're talking good enough for a team looking for promotion who can play in the PL should we succeed then they are not good enough, but neither is the rest of the squad. We've only got about 3 or 4 players that would be good enough for that (which is why we are scrabbling around mid table instead of challenging for the autos).
Every player we buy should potentially be good enough to be a top end championship or lower end PL player as a minimum (not a PL star but a capable PL squad player). I'm not convinced any of them are. We seem to be buying L1 standard that could improve to championship standard and that is a dangerous game because if too many of them fail to become championship level at the same time then we are more likely to be slipping down than rising up. The chances of the L1 standard becoming PL standard seems like a very low probability and I'm not sure we're going to get many winners out of that.
Every player we buy should potentially be good enough to be a top end championship or lower end PL player as a minimum (not a PL star but a capable PL squad player). I'm not convinced any of them are. We seem to be buying L1 standard that could improve to championship standard and that is a dangerous game because if too many of them fail to become championship level at the same time then we are more likely to be slipping down than rising up. The chances of the L1 standard becoming PL standard seems like a very low probability and I'm not sure we're going to get many winners out of that.
TeaCider
Well-known member
Yeah, I doubt many have a delivery as good as Giles, but I do think Engel is a decent replacement for him at half the price.
Defensive lapses aside, which all of our players are making, I think it's largely Engel's lack of pace that's his weakness.
He's got a wicked shot and can pick out a pass, but he does get caught out because he's not particularly fast and Greenwood's not hugely involved when he's not touching the ball on that left hand side.
For me, Bangura would be my choice for LB - and this is primarily based on my lack of confidence in Engel.
He had a shocking start against Sheff Wed, but fair play to him, he's improved considerably since then.
Engel's passing in general is inconsistent - and he's got away with a few dodgy back passes which haven't been punished by the opposition. Far too often when he has the opportunity to progress the ball down the left flank, he cuts back inside and plays the safer, more defensive pass.
He lacks acceleration and pace, and this is a trait that he won't able to improve very much, if at all.
He's also weak aerially, which is a concern for our set piece frailties.
The biggest indictment for Engel though is the oft seen lack of willingness in his team mates to simply give him the ball! Even when he's in yards of space! Step forward Paddy... (but he's not the only one). I think this speaks volumes.
On the plus side, his attitude is great and he's provided some good assists. His delivery into the box can be very good but lacks consistency and is certainly no Giles.
I'd rate him currently as a bottom third Champo player.
From what I've seen of Bangura, his biggest assets are his pace, physical power and strength and athleticism - traits that our overall team are lacking in I feel.
His physicality should help in defensive set pieces too, although I've not seen much of him aerially.
He carries the ball very well and likes to take on and commit a man. His passing in general is good and he seems more confident and progressive.
His defensive positional sense needs working on but he's more likely to recover from ill-judged situations due to his aforementioned athleticism and pace.
His delivery into the box is possibly weaker than Engel's but I think he'd look to link up more inside with the likes of Rogers.
Individually, I think he's more likely to pin back the oppositions full back than Engel.
To summarise, I'd say Bangura has more to offer offensively, brings more physicality, pace and power to the team and has more scope to develop. At 24 he's a touch younger than Engel (6 months).
Let's give Bangy a run!!
He had a shocking start against Sheff Wed, but fair play to him, he's improved considerably since then.
Engel's passing in general is inconsistent - and he's got away with a few dodgy back passes which haven't been punished by the opposition. Far too often when he has the opportunity to progress the ball down the left flank, he cuts back inside and plays the safer, more defensive pass.
He lacks acceleration and pace, and this is a trait that he won't able to improve very much, if at all.
He's also weak aerially, which is a concern for our set piece frailties.
The biggest indictment for Engel though is the oft seen lack of willingness in his team mates to simply give him the ball! Even when he's in yards of space! Step forward Paddy... (but he's not the only one). I think this speaks volumes.
On the plus side, his attitude is great and he's provided some good assists. His delivery into the box can be very good but lacks consistency and is certainly no Giles.
I'd rate him currently as a bottom third Champo player.
From what I've seen of Bangura, his biggest assets are his pace, physical power and strength and athleticism - traits that our overall team are lacking in I feel.
His physicality should help in defensive set pieces too, although I've not seen much of him aerially.
He carries the ball very well and likes to take on and commit a man. His passing in general is good and he seems more confident and progressive.
His defensive positional sense needs working on but he's more likely to recover from ill-judged situations due to his aforementioned athleticism and pace.
His delivery into the box is possibly weaker than Engel's but I think he'd look to link up more inside with the likes of Rogers.
Individually, I think he's more likely to pin back the oppositions full back than Engel.
To summarise, I'd say Bangura has more to offer offensively, brings more physicality, pace and power to the team and has more scope to develop. At 24 he's a touch younger than Engel (6 months).
Let's give Bangy a run!!
MickaelDebevePhenomenal
Well-known member
Both players can't be helped by the fact there isn't a clear number 1 choice, so seem to be rotating with all the lack of confidence that brings.
Neither are top end championship players, or anywhere near that, which is where we need them to be if we want to mount a promotion push, but doesn't mean they won't get there. They are playing in a foreign league for the first time, come into a team with a unsettled back four and line up.
Another thread on this board discusses "the model" . These types of players need to be given time to develop
Neither are top end championship players, or anywhere near that, which is where we need them to be if we want to mount a promotion push, but doesn't mean they won't get there. They are playing in a foreign league for the first time, come into a team with a unsettled back four and line up.
Another thread on this board discusses "the model" . These types of players need to be given time to develop
DanBoro4499
Well-known member
Engel - looked brilliant at times since that horror show against sheff wed, but still proving to have lapses of concentration. He's had to make a big step up but i think he's coped with it pretty well. He does look to have a lot of good attributes and i love wathing him drive forward.
Bangura - unless i'm mistaken i can't recall a time he's ever let us down when on the pitch? Always seems to put in a very solid performance. Never known him singled out for any performances like Engel has.
On that basis, if you held a gun to my head it has to be Bangura for me. There's something i really like about Engel though, and i'm desperate for him to succeed.
Bangura - unless i'm mistaken i can't recall a time he's ever let us down when on the pitch? Always seems to put in a very solid performance. Never known him singled out for any performances like Engel has.
On that basis, if you held a gun to my head it has to be Bangura for me. There's something i really like about Engel though, and i'm desperate for him to succeed.
WilliamMunny
Well-known member
Looks like it's only the vocal minority that thinks left back is a problem position for us.
Like the majority, I've been impressed by both players at different times, whilst being fully aware of their limitations. Personally I'm more confident that Engel will prove to be a very good Championship left back, but Bangura has great potential. If we don't go up this season, I expect both to be better players in the Championship next season.
I also concur with the point others have made about not having a settled back 4 or midfield. Carrick himself has made the point that it has been very difficult for players to develop partnerships and a general understanding of their team mates attributes with so many injuries. When we are finally able to pick from a largely fit squad, I expect we will see better individual performances as well as team performances.
Like the majority, I've been impressed by both players at different times, whilst being fully aware of their limitations. Personally I'm more confident that Engel will prove to be a very good Championship left back, but Bangura has great potential. If we don't go up this season, I expect both to be better players in the Championship next season.
I also concur with the point others have made about not having a settled back 4 or midfield. Carrick himself has made the point that it has been very difficult for players to develop partnerships and a general understanding of their team mates attributes with so many injuries. When we are finally able to pick from a largely fit squad, I expect we will see better individual performances as well as team performances.
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
I thought all the goals were barlasser fault.
Mendieta14
Well-known member
Engel is good enough just not very consistent.. I don't like the rotating LBs that Carrick has been doing recently.
Bangura needs to greatly improve defensively. It all seems a little too easy sometimes vs him.
Bangura needs to greatly improve defensively. It all seems a little too easy sometimes vs him.
atypical_boro
Well-known member
That awful dive though.
DanBoro4499
Well-known member
Oh yea true haha
Boro_Interlinked
Well-known member
I'm Ok with both for now but they have had their settling in period , re change of country , league, pace and style of play and both need to buckle down now and make improvements especially in the defensive area
I did not know this til now as I just looked it up on transfermarket but neither have learned the trade of LB at all from their early career. Both started and played for 3 or 4 seasons as attacking roles. Engel only changed to a LB 21/22 season but that was half way through when he changed club so just has 18 apps as LB then , next season 33 apps so that's just 51 games in that position. Bangura switched to LB once season earlier so he has 24 , 28 and 28 apps in that position before joining us. Maybe MC put fwd the idea he didn't need out an out defender and we should look to sign LB's that had played more fwd too
I did not know this til now as I just looked it up on transfermarket but neither have learned the trade of LB at all from their early career. Both started and played for 3 or 4 seasons as attacking roles. Engel only changed to a LB 21/22 season but that was half way through when he changed club so just has 18 apps as LB then , next season 33 apps so that's just 51 games in that position. Bangura switched to LB once season earlier so he has 24 , 28 and 28 apps in that position before joining us. Maybe MC put fwd the idea he didn't need out an out defender and we should look to sign LB's that had played more fwd too
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indeedido
Well-known member
I’ve not seen enough of Bangura, but I am slightly more hopeful with him.
Engel is erratic. That won’t change. He is a bottom end Champo player at best. Of course he has qualities, but his weaknesses are major.
To sign 3 in the summer and not have a reliable one amongst them is poor.
Engel is erratic. That won’t change. He is a bottom end Champo player at best. Of course he has qualities, but his weaknesses are major.
To sign 3 in the summer and not have a reliable one amongst them is poor.
Laughing
Well-known member
I suspect the rotation is to avoid losing another player. Prior to the injury bite engel was the number 1 choice.
Laughing
Well-known member
You honestly think half a season is enough "settling" for young men moving to a different country and league?
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
Engel looks like a wing-back to me. I think he could be very good if some of the defensive responsibilities were taken away from him.
I would be tempted to say the same of Bangoyra tbh.
Having said that, there’s no reason they can’t improve aspects of their games through both coaching and playing games.
I would be tempted to say the same of Bangoyra tbh.
Having said that, there’s no reason they can’t improve aspects of their games through both coaching and playing games.
Engel has done the job asked of him very well recently - the problem with most fans is they're comparing him to Giles, when his role in the team is completely different.
Last season, Giles had a "free role" going forward, and we were able to use him as our main outlet.
This was because Howson provided specific cover for that role and Smith covered the other side by staying back and being more defensive (similarly to when Jones got the assists/goals and Taylor covered).
Howson and Giles roles in the team also allowed Hackney to move further forward for link up play.
The full-backs now move forward in-line/as a unit, alongside the CDM, instead of the "see-saw" we're used to with Jones - Taylor (21-22) and then Smith - Giles (22-23).
Our LBs (Engel/Bangura) now have the same responsibilities as our RBs (Dijksteel/RVDB) instead of one side being more attacking and the other side being more defensive.
This is also why we see the CDMs moving the ball more through the middle instead of into wider positions.
Last season, Giles also had a constant/static LCB in Lenihan, where our current LBs are usually playing alongside a different LCB every other week in Lenihan, then McNair, then RVDB and now Clarke.
----
I also don't think we signed Engel to play the role he's currently playing - I think we signed him as a Giles replacement, but due to Akpom leaving and injuries we haven't been able to play with that style. This is probably why we didn't sell Coulson (not saying he's good enough - he definitely isn't - but he has experience in a number of different LB styles), and the reason we also signed Bangura.
LB is probably one of the only positions on the pitch I'm "comfortable" with for the next 18 months+.
Last season, Giles had a "free role" going forward, and we were able to use him as our main outlet.
This was because Howson provided specific cover for that role and Smith covered the other side by staying back and being more defensive (similarly to when Jones got the assists/goals and Taylor covered).
Howson and Giles roles in the team also allowed Hackney to move further forward for link up play.
The full-backs now move forward in-line/as a unit, alongside the CDM, instead of the "see-saw" we're used to with Jones - Taylor (21-22) and then Smith - Giles (22-23).
Our LBs (Engel/Bangura) now have the same responsibilities as our RBs (Dijksteel/RVDB) instead of one side being more attacking and the other side being more defensive.
This is also why we see the CDMs moving the ball more through the middle instead of into wider positions.
Last season, Giles also had a constant/static LCB in Lenihan, where our current LBs are usually playing alongside a different LCB every other week in Lenihan, then McNair, then RVDB and now Clarke.
----
I also don't think we signed Engel to play the role he's currently playing - I think we signed him as a Giles replacement, but due to Akpom leaving and injuries we haven't been able to play with that style. This is probably why we didn't sell Coulson (not saying he's good enough - he definitely isn't - but he has experience in a number of different LB styles), and the reason we also signed Bangura.
LB is probably one of the only positions on the pitch I'm "comfortable" with for the next 18 months+.
Boro_Interlinked
Well-known member
well yeah, ones 25 , that's 7 years classed as an adult! No language barrier, no real culture barrier either as northern European. I'm not saying settled in to be showing us what a 'star' he is. I'm saying settled in as to be not worrying about anything other than wanting to train well and give good match performances.