8 days of mourning - is it for real?

[BoroMart]

Thought this thread was the other one the RIP one.

My bad. Beer goggles are on.

Claims of mafia behaviour, child molesting etc etc craic on guys. I'm out of this one.

nobody claimed child molesting, no need to exaggerate, although Mountbatten and Andrew have both had it levelled at them, oh and Charles took a fancy to Diana when she was 16 and he was 29, another one

 

[the_holgate_roof]

because we are all born with a brain, with an amazing capacity to achieve things. Its our environment that shapes us as people from that point onwards and creates barriers to our achievement. Creating limits on people is bad, taking resources away from the masses and giving them to 'special' people is repugnant. Give me one good reason why a royal baby deserves to have in front of it a lifetime of luxury and power and wealth and access to law making and to have this set in law for eternity for that child and its childrens children. Why that child will one day earn money from you and I because we use electricity from a north sea windfarm, and that child will inherit, tax free ownership of that seabed where the windfarm is. How is that not corrupt and unjust? What possible justification is there for that?

Maybe so, but monarchy is a man made structure, it is imposed on us by elitist families from our birth.


We won't ever all be equal, but that doesn't mean we should give up and not try and make things more equal than they are. The reality is if the royals could get away with taking more of our nations wealth they would. It took a lot of bloodshed to get absolute power out of their hands, don't underestimate what this institution will do to survive and get more of the pie. Money follows money, the more you have the more you can generate, it's why the 1% gain more and more without controls in place. This family have been benefitting from that structure for a very long time, some people are waking up to it.

Your paranoia about the Royal Family and monarchy is clouding your judgement, you can just see around the world, the mourning of the passing of Prince Phillip, it is not just the UK citizens who love and respect the Royal Family, it is the world over. This won’t change in your or my lifetime, yes express your dissent but in reality it is a wasted emotion.

 

[The Card Cheat]

How the hell do you know, last night, there was interview with a guy who knew Prince Phillip very well from the horse drawn cart racing, he was a scrap dealer from Cumbria and he said Phillip always spoke and treat him as an equal, and I bet deep down, he would have wished for a more simplistic life, without the pressures of the public eye. Money is not everything.

**** me.

 

[Nobby_Barnes]

Can I just ask....
Has the Boro game KO time been changed or not ?

 

[the_holgate_roof]

Can I just ask....
Has the Boro game KO time been changed or not ?

It will be

 

[Nobby_Barnes]

It will be

OK thanks

 

[Smoggle]

Your paranoia about the Royal Family and monarchy is clouding your judgement, you can just see around the world, the mourning of the passing of Prince Phillip, it is not just the UK citizens who love and respect the Royal Family, it is the world over. This won’t change in your or my lifetime, yes express your dissent but in reality it is a wasted emotion.

There may have been respectful messages of condolences, but the world isn’t in mourning, I’ve not seen a peep over here in my morning paper.

 

[the_holgate_roof]

There may have been respectful messages of condolences, but the world isn’t in mourning, I’ve not seen a peep over here in my morning paper.

Ok

 

[Smoggle]

Ok

I’m not saying that to be contrary or disrespectful, but you lot back home really overestimate our importance on the world news cycle sometimes. He’s been mentioned of course, more so in the Commonwealth, but most of the rest of the world have their own issues.

 

[BoroMart]

Your paranoia about the Royal Family and monarchy is clouding your judgement

I don't have paranoia, I've given you evidence of their corruption and you could go and read it yourself, but your myopic love of them blinds you.

you can just see around the world, the mourning of the passing of Prince Phillip, it is not just the UK citizens who love and respect the Royal Family, it is the world over.

Oh dear, loads of places don't care and even more hate them.

This won’t change in your or my lifetime, yes express your dissent but in reality it is a wasted emotion.

If it plays a small part in bringing change one day then I don't care if it's after I have gone. Nothing improves by accepting corruption as the norm. Ultimately it is my choice on what to be passionate about, it's none of your business and I'm not really sure why you think it's your place to tell me what I should care about?

 

[BoroMart]

Can I just ask....
Has the Boro game KO time been changed or not ?

The EFL have stated no games will kick off at 3pm because of the funeral. So likely they will be 5pm onwards

 

[the_holgate_roof]

I don't have paranoia, I've given you evidence of their corruption and you could go and read it yourself, but your myopic love of them blinds you.


Oh dear, loads of places don't care and even more hate them.


If it plays a small part in bringing change one day then I don't care if it's after I have gone. Nothing improves by exacting corruption as the norm

No evidence of corruption, just alluded corruption......same here though, I won’t be here to see this country without a monarchy.

 

[the_holgate_roof]

The EFL have stated no games will kick off at 3pm because of the funeral. So likely they will be 5pm onwards

Fair enough

 

[BoroMart]

No evidence of corruption, just alluded corruption......same here though, I won’t be here to see this country without a monarchy.

Man it's all public record, you know how to use google. "Black spider letters" and "queens approval" are what you need to look for if you are actually bothered about facts, but it seems you are not.

 

[MFP]

Man it's all public record, you know how to use google. "Black spider letters" and "queens approval" are what you need to look for if you are actually bothered about facts, but it seems you are not.

Yes, the black spider letters which were nothing more than some concerned old fella inquiring about the plight of South American fish, nutritional value of school dinners and the shoddy equipment offered to serving armed forces causing casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. What terrible things to care about. Even the The Guardian who pursued this FOI had an embarrassing climb down after reluctantly accepting they weren't the scandalous memos they were hoping for.

 

[BoroMart]

Yes, the black spider letters which were nothing more than some concerned old fella inquiring about the plight of South American fish, nutritional value of school dinners and the shoddy equipment offered to serving armed forces causing casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan. What terrible things to care about. Even the The Guardian who pursued this FOI had an embarrassing climb down after reluctantly accepting they weren't the scandalous memos they were hoping for.

They are far more than that, we both know it, your sarcasm belies your lack of objectivity. The guardian didn't climb down, they wanted to get more, and guess what the royals had the law changed so that no more information on them could be released. Not exactly the actions of an honest institution, I mean ensuring no accountability as soon as you are caught out.

 

[MFP]

Not one to acknowledge having my objectivity called out by someone who routinely labels people paedophiles, has these really angry and weird meltdowns in every thread about a Royal topic and talks of corruption yet clearly doesn't know the meaning of the word.

And you obviously didn't read The Guardian's editorial on the revelations. Perhaps you should instead of presuming to know it all.

Prince Charles behaves more as a bit of a bore on behalf of his good causes than as any sort of wannabe feudal tyrant. The idea that he is some latter-day George III or Kaiser Wilhelm, an over-mighty ruler wrestling with ministers for control of the wheel, with epochal consequences for his country, would be wide of the mark

The Guardian view on the Charles letters: self-indulgence on an industrial scale | Editorial

Editorial: The prince supports many good causes but he does himself and the monarchy no favours by rejecting the Queen’s studied blankness

www.theguardian.com

 

[BoroMart]

Not one to acknowledge having my objectivity called out by someone who routinely labels people paedophiles

who have I labelled a pedo, unjustly? I've stated that Mountbatten had an fbi file on him for pedophilia with young boys, that Charles as a 29 year old took a liking to a 16 year old girl, and that Ivar Mountbatten described Philips behaviour towards his daughters in what I would call strange terms. Andrew I didn't state exactly what he did, but we all know what he did.

And you obviously didn't read The Guardian's editorial on the revelations. Perhaps you should instead of presuming to know it all.

I did, there was more they wanted, it got shut down. He used his position to meddle, abused his role, that is corruption regardless if you think it was a good cause or not. If they have nothing to hide they should be open to accountability and governance, not shutting down all information on their behaviour, that should be deeply deeply concerning to everyone.

What is telling in your response is that you didn't go anywhere near defending the 1,000+ queens approval scandal. Again, corrupt, particularly as the rhetoric has been 'the queen stays out of politics and is largely ceremonial' for many years and has now been proven untrue.

 

[Scrote]

The Guardian.......left wing paper.

Firstly, it's been a centrist mouthpiece for well over a decade. It may lean more left than you, but it's not "Left Wing".

Secondly, facts are facts. Did the queen meddle in 1000+ pieces of legislation? Did Charles try to influence policy (no matter how meaningless)? Was there a change in the law to prevent more investigations?

If you look back I was referring to Socialism...

...they struggle with things like ambition, entrepreneurship, people striving to better themselves, they would rather people were kept down and level, stifling progression.

Utter drivel.

Socialism is just a movement towards preventing one set of people living off the backs of other peoples' hard work.

There's nothing in socialism to prevent you setting up a business (e.g. Amazon) and making a billion quid - as long as you pay your workers a fair wage. One way to ensure workers are treated fairly is to give them proper representation at board level or similar. No-one should work a 40+ hour week for a company making profits in the £Billions and struggle to afford housing, food and a modicum of entertainment.

It's not about keeping people "down and level" either. It's about not letting people pull up the ladder behind them. Equality of opportunity.

 

[BoroMart]

There's nothing in socialism to prevent you setting up a business (e.g. Amazon) and making a billion quid - as long as you pay your workers a fair wage. One way to ensure workers are treated fairly is to give them proper representation at board level or similar. No-one should work a 40+ hour week for a company making profits in the £Billions and struggle to afford housing, food and a modicum of entertainment.

It's not about keeping people "down and level" either. It's about not letting people pull up the ladder behind them. Equality of opportunity.

Exactly this. It's a bit off topic but that's where some people want to take it.

The problem with free market capitalism is that money makes more money. Without any controls the majority of wealth will always flow to a very small % of the population. This is regardless if those rich people put any effort into life or not. It's all just investments and if you have enough money you get some experts to make them for you. It's not a meritocratic system without some governance.

It's why inheritance tax and counter corruption laws are important. They act as brakes to stop this runaway activity and ultimately improve social mobility. The monarchies exemptions from things such as FOI laws is an opt out from counter-corruption laws. It should concern everyone that people at the centre of our politics, unelected bureaucrats from the queen down through the royal household, are working with no accountability and with unique avoidance of any governance.

My desire for some socialist policies is to curb those excesses, to ensure everybody gets the opportunity to move up the ladder to any level they choose, up to and including the head of state. That isn't socialism, or communism, or even leftist, it's an avoidance of economic far right ideology and the inherent corruption that accompanies it.

I don't want the state owning everything, but I also don't want 50% of land in this country owned by approx 1% of people as we currently have. I don't want this perpetuated, out of institutions and habit. It impacts all of us by pushing our house prices up. I don't want ownership of the seashore via 'dibs' pushing our electricity costs up. Everyone should have access to land, and the government should own the 3 mile seashore for the betterment of the citizens, not for the betterment of one families bank account. I don't want inheritance tax avoidance via the uber rich, because that leaves the burden of funding the state on the rest of us.

These aren't extravagant or unworkable ideologies, they're balanced and pragmatic and I'm afraid your (not you scrote) beloved monarchy are one of the key instigators and benefactors of the current inequity. If you are happy for that, then fine, but don't act like it's taboo for anyone to question it, or play down it's impact.