MolteniArcore
Well-known member
I wonder if for the average user the infrastructure is already sufficient but when you aren't in the EV world and not up to speed with the charging points out there it seems quite scary to jump into EV ownership.
Will the ban on the sale of petrol/diesel cars happen in 7 years?
- Thread starter Facefuzz
- Start date
I wonder if for the average user the infrastructure is already sufficient but when you aren't in the EV world and not up to speed with the charging points out there it seems quite scary to jump into EV ownership.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
Im no
It's ok being an EV enthusiast but until the infrastructure makes the A to B car driver feel confident, particular those with multiple part time jobs juggling the time around a small family (not me, by the way), there will still be anxiety. I've talked to a number of hybrid owners not ready to make the extra step and they know the infrastructure.
No, hence the anxiety we're reading about, and the bad luck stories we hear about cars stuck on drives, taking a long time to charge etc with people regretting having made the step.
It's ok being an EV enthusiast but until the infrastructure makes the A to B car driver feel confident, particular those with multiple part time jobs juggling the time around a small family (not me, by the way), there will still be anxiety. I've talked to a number of hybrid owners not ready to make the extra step and they know the infrastructure.
I have an EV so I know all of those are issues. I undertake journeys of about 400 miles about 8 times annually, and it always needs to be planned. I've paid £50 for 150 miles, which feels like a rip off, but it saved time.
No different to anything else. You only hear the bad stories. People don't tell you how good it is that you haven't been to a petrol station for 3 months but if they have to queue for an hour on the busiest travel day of the year they are going to tell you (or the papers). Same as how all the trains on time don't make news or all the roads that don't have traffic on but when there is a delay or a traffic jam it is newsworthy. 99% of people have a good holiday but on Holidays from Hell people in the same hotel had a terrible experience so that means nobody should ever go on holiday.
A better example is how everyone hates new builds because they've read they are rubbish but the vast majority of people that own one have no problems with it and they ignore all the people that bought old houses with loads of problems, damp, drafty, amateur DIY and electrics, rooms badly laid out, leaky roof, needs completely redecorating because it stinks of smoke or old person etc.
Nothing will ever be perfect. Do you think all the people buying ICE cars have no issues with them? Is waiting 2 hours at a services for a free charger worse than queuing for 2 hours at a petrol station because there was a shortage due to panic buying? That happened the week my EV was delivered so I was extra smug that week.
SmallTown
Well-known member
It doesn't need significant planning though doesn't it? Just stop when you need a rest and charge there, it's what I do
SmallTown
Well-known member
Yes this is correct. Even I was amazed when I went to the lakes how easy it was to charge. I assume once I leave the safety of the south east there are only a few chargers. Infrastructure does need to grow and significantly. Perhaps not in the way people think though. Major towns and routes are fine. The issue is destination charging. There needs to be more hotels, shopping malls and on street charging. It would finally put to bed the range anxiety myth because people would keep topping up.
SmallTown
Well-known member
For most cars 45 mins is even an exaggeration. When I come home, I stop for roughly 10 min to top up. Enough time to pee
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
SmallTown
Well-known member
I don't think it is though. It seems a reaction to the constant negative comments that have either been disproven, are exaggerated or apply to ICE cars too. I can understand the frustration
Boro_Interlinked
Well-known member
Have seen many motoring shows and also been interested to watch youtube stuff on reviews of EV's. Don't like the way that too much of the public charging network 'seems' to be out of action at any one time. Ie yes chargers do have faults. If that gets through to the users as info via apps then good but on all the things I seen there is an issue with it as there's no provider running around 'quickly enough' fixing them . Also saw things like 2 cars at the charger but they were incompatible in being charged together on their independent cables. Neither of the drivers knew that before trying to do so Not to do with connector types , to do with what overall current draw would be put on the station charger. Now I don't know all the details there but it came up a few times. But there is a whole segment of people that its not really going to be great for and those are drivers that like to tow things. caravan, trailer tents, even small 2 wheel general cargo trailers,, it hammers the range completely. Seen that a few times. The best thing I saw was on 5th gear I think, might have been Norway as well , but they have loads of experience there, they have developed a replacement battery pack and a station to do it It wan't just an idea , they had a working setup where it took the machine about 3-5 mins to remove from under your car the entire battery pack and replace with a new one , then off you went. the journo was well impressed. I won't be getting an EV on price alone . I usually pick up 8yr old cars for about 5 k and use for 4 years before changing. Can't see 2nd hand EV's dropping to those levels at all.
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
There are 2 Nissan Leafs under £5k on auto trader currently. One is £3k. It will come.
muniz
Well-known member
ive no drive way and the thought of having to spend an hour potentially at a charging station (if had to wait for someone else to finish charging) seems bonkers,
also any savings on fuel costs if you dont charge yourself is gonna get raped by people selling their electric on for huge markups
and add to the fact the cars are mostly computer based, I always hear of those who have them have had random faults with them you wouldnt get with a mechanical car, like breaks coming on by themselves when they shouldn't, sun roofs opening on their own just some I've heard this week from colleages lol
also any savings on fuel costs if you dont charge yourself is gonna get raped by people selling their electric on for huge markups
and add to the fact the cars are mostly computer based, I always hear of those who have them have had random faults with them you wouldnt get with a mechanical car, like breaks coming on by themselves when they shouldn't, sun roofs opening on their own just some I've heard this week from colleages lol
muniz
Well-known member
how long do them cars have left before they are no good though?
Fully agree that there is a big difference if you don't have a home (or office) charger. Charging should be passive. It should happen when you are doing something else and if you have no home access then it becomes active, i.e. you have to leave the house just to charge, and that isn't convenient.
On the 2nd point, none of those things would be exclusive to an EV. All those things are controlled by the car's electronics. The motor in an EV and the engine in an ICE are swapped but the majority of the car is the same. The brakes are probably to do with the assisted driving modes spotting something that isn't there which any new car has these days as it is just a fancier version of cruise control.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
What's that got to do with his new house building nonsense and the fiction about a petrol crisis that most haven't been touched by.
Why frustration, is it because people are apprehensive about dipping their toe in, and why 'frustration' anyway?
It's frustrating that you're not using public transport for many but that's not going to persuade you not to give your car up.
They will when they're ready and feel confident that the infrastructure is there and they can actually afford an EV.
You're in a fairly weather minority that can, most people are looking for affordable second hand cars and for many an ICE is the only option. For many others infrastructure anxiety is a problem. They're not going to get over this listening to the EV anorak brigade, they'll get over it as EV driving becomes more of a norm and facilities reflect that.
Steer
Well-known member
I knew someone who had an old Nissan Leaf and the range had decreased so much that it was unusable unless all you wanted to do was to go to the local shop & back.
Best saving up more money I think.
Used prces will come down on EVs at some point, but an old leaf might not be the answer
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
The only thing that might be a problem is battery deg but like any ICE car you do your homework and check what condition the battery is in before buying.
The first gen batteries appear not to last long but if it is a newer one the buyer might find a good un. But you wouldn't buy one with a knackered battery just like you wouldn't buy an ICE car with a clonking engine.
SmallTown
Well-known member
Working chargers are an issue but they are improving a lot.
Not sure what you incompatible charging comment is about, can you expand? Pretty much all cars use the same charging ports these days, except for some stragglers on Chademo. Or current draw? Can you explain these?
The towing thing is interesting. It highlights one of the issues I've mentioned a few times on this thread. That people confuse problems with vehicles with problems with electric vehicles. Range gets hammered in on ICE vehicle when you tow as well.
Nio do battery swap technology. I'm not convinced myself but they have hundreds of stations in China and, as you say, a couple in Norway. It may take off. Don't know
Second hand EV have already hit 5k. and they can only drop more as more hit the market.
SmallTown
Well-known member
It's frustrating because the arguments are usually based on misconceptions, exaggerations are straight up lies. Oh and the other one, which seems endemic on this thread. Taking a problem with vehicles and equating it to EV, when it applies to all cars. That's why people get frustrated. When a debate is biased and repeats incorrect "facts". You are almost correct about infrastructure anxiety. Not in charger availability. As I mentioned above even I was surprised with the ease of charging on a trip to the lakes, but with charger quality. There need to be a better quality of charger and less down time
SmallTown
Well-known member
I don't have a driveway either. I charge fine. Only once had to queue at a charger, for 4 minutes at Winchester during the Christmas rush.
Your last sentence is a strange one in that it repeats this thing about saying things are problems with EV when they aren't, they are a problem with all cars. All cars have computers running them. Crazy that you should mention mechanical cars and then use examples that can be found in ICE cars. cruise control has been around for way longer than current EV and electric sunroofs have been around for much longer than that. Yet you say they are purely an EV issue? They aren't