ThePrisoner
Well-known member
Surely they are just taking the RWNJ's from the tory party? Hopefully they wreck the tory vote and do a UKIP and get zero seats.
YouGov Poll - 33 Point lead!
- Thread starter Chris_Boro
- Start date
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
Surely that's 6% that would have voted conservatives before because muh brexit, who now think the cons aren't Brexit enough?
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
Absolutely not. I've chatted to a number of former Labour voters that I've known for years who are big fans of them.
They've been bitten by the nationalist/racist bug and immigration is now their single issue, together with 'Islam problem'.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Headline takeaway from this is 1 in 5 people are dumb as fook
Billy Horner
Well-known member
‘Former’ Labour voters though. People with those attitudes wouldn’t be going back to vote Labour, it’s a straight choice between Tories or Reform.
However you look at it, this represents a split of the right wing vote which, under our current voting system (God I hope we change it soon), would lead to a collapse in the number of Tory MPs. The main problem is that we’re probably at least 18 months away from a general election and a big chunk of those voters will scuttle back to the Tories when it really matters.
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
What is Reform UK? Poll shows Tories moving to political party
A YouGov poll reveals a rise in Reform UK support after voters leave the Tories.
www.standard.co.uk
Anton_Berg
Well-known member
Big thanks due to Mr Zahawi for founding Yougov?
Scrote
Well-known member
We knew we'd have 5 years of pure misery under Johnson but people who are now bitching about the left voted for him anyway to prevent a fairly moderate socialist programme.
PFI is definitely not left-of-centre. It was pointed out at the time. Foresight is a wonderful thing...
He made an MP apologise for directly quoting Amnesty. I don't want any of what he's selling.
Labour have made their choice. They now need to get enough disillusioned One Nation Tories on board to win and they can do whatever they want. Power for the sake of power.
Losing 2017 and 2019 was the lefts fault cause they were in charge. If Labour lose the next one, that'll be the lefts fault for not supporting the Labour right's Osbournomics programme.
2015? You guessed it. The lefts fault. Ed rhymes with red so it's obvious.
2010? The lefts fault. Brown was a trot or something.
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BoroMart
Well-known member
that's one example, but the majority of his policy was soft left, while still allowing economic growth. Economically and as a whole, Blairite policies are the best we've had in my lifetime.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
Soft right for me.
Lefty
Well-known member
What people forget when they talk about Brown's 'dreadful PFI' plan is that as part of Labours election pledge and attempt to win over the Murdoch press and the voters in the centre, who had become used to the taxation rates of the Tories and scared of the Labour 'tax and spend' narrative the Tories had successfully labelled them with under Kinnock, Foot, Callahan/Healey, Wilson, is that Blair and Brown committed to the same taxation plans of the Tories previous budgets.
They did plan to spend the money raised differently to the Tories. They had priorities - rescue the NHS and Education, Education, Education. This was about investment in the future. Long term thinking. They also knew it required more spending than the Tories budgets would raise in taxation, so they had to find ways to raise more money. The reasoning being that even if it costs more, as long as it costs less than it did to treat illness, to get waiting lists down, to reduce sick days, to prevent illness or get to it sooner rather than let it progress, it was still good economics for the country.
We have seen the alternative ever since. We have seen the degrading of the NHS. Where are the Tories 40 hospitals, hospitals they know are needed?
Yes, it would have been better to fund these hospitals through taxation, but they were restricted with what they could do because of those pledges which they felt they needed to make to get in to power in order to enact the many things they did that benefited this country enormously.
They did plan to spend the money raised differently to the Tories. They had priorities - rescue the NHS and Education, Education, Education. This was about investment in the future. Long term thinking. They also knew it required more spending than the Tories budgets would raise in taxation, so they had to find ways to raise more money. The reasoning being that even if it costs more, as long as it costs less than it did to treat illness, to get waiting lists down, to reduce sick days, to prevent illness or get to it sooner rather than let it progress, it was still good economics for the country.
We have seen the alternative ever since. We have seen the degrading of the NHS. Where are the Tories 40 hospitals, hospitals they know are needed?
Yes, it would have been better to fund these hospitals through taxation, but they were restricted with what they could do because of those pledges which they felt they needed to make to get in to power in order to enact the many things they did that benefited this country enormously.
Midnight to Six Man
Well-known member
I've never known ( I'm 60 ) such a wide gap between the so called left and right voters.
People who deem themselves as left of centre think this government is too right wing .
While those on the right ( including Red Wall voters ) don't think its right wing enough .
People who deem themselves as left of centre think this government is too right wing .
While those on the right ( including Red Wall voters ) don't think its right wing enough .
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
This is because the Tories and Labour were complicit in taking advantage of the public's financial illiteracy. Government borrowing is far, far cheaper than any PFI deals, which are costing the taxpayer hundreds of billions of pounds. Governments can borrow at much lower rates than anyone else and despite what politicians will tell you, it isn't like a mortgage where timescales and repayment rates have to be adhered to.
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Lefty
Well-known member
So what are you accusing Brown of? Being economically incompetent, being right wing, or being corrupt and handing out lucrative contracts to friends in the city?
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
Meanwhile, as 30p Lee is appointed Deputy Chair….
All 3 (y)
The guy had a decade as chancellor and left us totally exposed to the global financial crisis. I suppose you'll say he was a great chancellor because of all the growth before the recession but its a bit like saying Southgate was a good boro manager for finishing in midtable and getting to an FA cup QF before being embarrassed by Cardiff and getting relegated.
Tuition fees, ASBOs, no nationalisations, nothing done about Thatchers anti trade union legislation, the way tax credits were used to top up wages without costing employers. You'll of course say but what about minimum wage but overall I really don't think there's much of a case to say Brown was a leftwing CoE. He was a privatise profits, socialise losses type.
Cash for honours, cash for access, the MPs expenses scandal, the Bernie Ecclestone donation. New Labour wasn't whiter than white when it came to financial dodgy dealings.
BoroMart
Well-known member
spot on Lefty. IT was essential that we invested, but there was pressure from the right wing owned media to not raise taxes. People need to learn, taxation is a part of life, and it's necessary.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Every western country was exposed. Not sure what could have been done to avoid it, without giving up our position as a leading financial market service provider. It's also worth noting that Brown was fundamental on a global stage to fighting the crisis to stop it becoming a depression.