exiledinboro
Well-known member
So what are the Tories then? I genuinely have no idea
The closest I can pin them down to is a kleptocracy
The closest I can pin them down to is a kleptocracy
Seems fair enough. They certainly don't uphold the traditional tory ideological tenetsSo what are the Tories then? I genuinely have no idea
The closest I can pin them down to is a kleptocracy
Yeah, people don't like detail, they like snapshots aimed at not covering the point, but suiting a specific narrative and a target audience they can con.It's not just older people though. There is a tendency for people to digest news in very short order.
How many people would actually read Andy's post above? That's not a criticism as I generally agree with it but the digital age means people don't like to wait for anything.
Most people under 30 wouldn't even bother with this thread; they'd go to the latest poll to see what the 'score' is.
You're welcome to disagree, but please explain why?I've read Andys comments and I couldn't disagree more
I've worked in the NHS and it's simple we need more staff training and more clinicians
Private companies not running enough services is not the problem!
kakocracy.So what are the Tories then? I genuinely have no idea
The closest I can pin them down to is a kleptocracy
I have seen htis graph loads recently, it brings in to stark relief the reality of NHS funding under labour and tory governments.
You see, instead of trying to look slightly less bad than the Tories, the Labour Party should be banging on about this. No amount of propaganda by the Tories and their press allies about Labour spending will gain traction when set against this simple, straightforward graphic.
The numbers have massively increased because of covid, it caused a massive backlog (which has effected beds, A&E, GP's, Physio's etc, it's all linked) and covid effectively becomes an amplifier for many other issues. The couple that with the issues covid has caused for staff, illnesses etc. The Tories have cocked up massively, up to Covid, but Covid came and bit them (and us) in the ****. It's not all their fault mind, it wouldn't have been easy for any healthcare system to deal with, which is why they're all struggling (to a lesser degree)."People can't get a doctor's appointment as the doctors are over-subscribed " but surely the numbers have not massively increased since Covid. I know there are probably less doctors but even before Covid it was almost impossible to actually see a doctor. This is one of the things that need sorting. Get doctors sorted and it would bring down the numbers going to A&E.
You see, instead of trying to look slightly less bad than the Tories, the Labour Party should be banging on about this. No amount of propaganda by the Tories and their press allies about Labour spending will gain traction when set against this simple, straightforward graphic.
Pretty much any aspect could be run better, just like any area could do with more workers and a better (more standard) ratio of management to workers. It's not necessarily individual areas, it might be the whole thing, and it's all interlinked.Labours record of the NHS compared to the Tories is something I think is absolutely clear and those graphs show it and I think we’ve all probably noticed
Andy, what service do you think should be run by private companies and I’ll explain my view in response
Cameron and the Andrew Lansley health act meant the NHS has to put its services up for tender where the NHS bids to retain the service compared to private companies that bid
So that’s been in place to just under 10 years
Which service providers Andy would you like to use as an example of where it works?
Pretty much any aspect could be run better, just like any area could do with more workers and a better (more standard) ratio of management to workers. It's not necessarily individual areas, it might be the whole thing, and it's all interlinked.
From my experience, private companies tend to run better than public ones as they have to, and tend to have the best people running them, as they pay more money for them. They need to be cost-effective and competitive or they go broke. Then couple that with poor performance leads to the sack or people being moved to less influential/ responsible areas, which happens a lot less in the public sector.
It was the same in the RAF, sure all of us on the ground did a good job, in tough conditions, but it was so badly run, extremely inefficient and extremely wasteful, which everyone could see and agreed on. Our lower management and mid management had their hands tied, loads of the problems were caused by poor regulation, for fear of regulation through lack of understanding, and top level management. The top level management never got to see how it actually was on the ground, as they were very rarely there, and when they were there our lower management was effectively told to lie, by the middle management, as the lower top management effectively told them they wanted lies, it was mental, it was a pure fugazi. It's even worse now apparently.
Same applies to now for my construction company, when we price work on council jobs. They're so badly ran it's beyond a joke, we have to double our price (or use rates on a job which should be fixed price) due to how many errors we know the client (council) will make, and how much extra time this will cause. We can't risk it running into other work (so price to assume it will take longer), and delaying the next job, and losing long term clients who do know how to plan/ price correctly.
Same applies on HS2, the company is effectively owned/operated by Network Rail/ the government/ people, the designs they have put forward are laughable. Projects which could be done for 50k are costing 250k as they're so badly/ inefficiently designed. It's not the designer's fault or the contractors, it's that the designers are being told to go way OTT by NR/ HS2/ policy/ regulation, and any time they cross NR, Highways or Council land, they have to fight their own NR/ Highways and Council regulation, who are meant to be on the same side. Never mind that of the regulation they put on the utility asset owners, which then comes to bite them back in the ****. It's like a massive feedback loop of inefficiency and increased costs. It's paying a lot of people to run around in circles mind, so I suppose it's good for employment if nothing else.
Like I say though, I definitely don't want the NHS privatised, I don't want it run for profit, but it needs to be looked at like a business, and how efficiency can be improved, what is causing backlogs etc. It needs to do better for the money spent, but this is 110% in no way the fault of those at the lower levels, those actually treating patients etc.
I'm not against tendering, if it's linked to targets and there are penalties, it works better than just having free reign to the chequebook. Competition should be a good thing if things are not corrupt, even if the tendering is only used as a feasibility/ confidence check on the cost. There has to be some accountability though, maybe big bonuses for those who control various sectors of the NHS, if they do a good job, on budget etc. I've no doubt some aspects could be tendered out for less cost, and hit better performance targets, but this could only be done if the client manages it correctly which effectively the Tories as a client of the NHS will not do. Labour could do better if they recruited the right people to run this (not a politician who has zero expertise on this), but it would cost a lot to get them, and press would have a field day with that. The later issue though is when Labour lose power it's back to the tories being the client again. It could still work, but there would need to be some extreme controls, which cannot be altered to suit people getting backhanders.
Write out one hundred lines...Sunak must be doomed
Teachers striking now
Strong and stable.Sunak must be doomed
Teachers striking now
Can't keep it short and be thorough, it's an extremely complex topic.Andy, keep it short you prefer private NHS service to public so which companies or service are you referring to?![]()