YouGov Poll - 33 Point lead!

festa5 said:
If they had a shred of decency or even dignity they'd call a general election and end this debacle.

They've lost control and it's clear as day they have no idea how to fix any of the problems, most of their own making.

It's also increasingly obvious a significant majority of the electorate want them gone too.

Sunak can't govern, he's weak and his party is splintered. He's not really in charge, he's just a figurehead for the sham government. Even if he had any original thoughts (he doesn't) he'd never be able to implement them because he'd never be able to get enough of his MPs to agree. A worrying number seem to think they're actually in UKIP (or worse).

Most ministers seem to be just leaning into the fact were pretty much just a Kleptocracy now.
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They have no decency. They will cling on until Jsnuary 2025. Enough time for many of them to continue lining their pickets and go off to their shire manor houses in political retirement with pockets of money.
 
Interesting to see what happens with the Deformed Party numbers. Conservative voters will start to look seriously at them. The Tory party is rapidly ceasing to exist in the form we were used to describing them. Three main factions. All of them in a race further to the right.
If a party can gain an 80 seat majority by polling only 44% of the total votes cast….well.
We all know it’s twisted. Personally I want, and have always wanted PR in some form.

www.makevotesmatter.org.uk

Make Votes Matter - Everything wrong with First Past the Post - Proportional Representation

Everything wrong with our First Past the Post voting system, why it’s so unpopular and why we need Proportional Representation to #MakeVotesMatter.
www.makevotesmatter.org.uk www.makevotesmatter.org.uk
 
Laughing said:
Pretty graphic lefty. If you change the question to should we have a rejoin referendum it wouldn't look quite so obvious, unfortunately.
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Indeed.

Brexit was a terrible choice, yet the whole Brexit process, debate and divide was even worse for most people so at the moment that the idea of revisiting it is an anathema. That is the main reason Boris won so handsomely. 'Getting Brexit Done' was less an endorsement for Brexit, it was more 'hey, I'll get us past this 4 year paralysis, argument and division one way or another'.

Even that sentiment will change the longer the detrimental aspects take effect, mind you.
 
Lefty said:
Indeed.

Brexit was a terrible choice, yet the whole Brexit process, debate and divide was even worse for most people so at the moment that the idea of revisiting it is an anathema. That is the main reason Boris won so handsomely. 'Getting Brexit Done' was less an endorsement for Brexit, it was more 'hey, I'll get us past this 4 year paralysis, argument and division one way or another'.

Even that sentiment will change the longer the detrimental aspects take effect, mind you.
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Very well put. Wish I had said that, but it's what I meant to say
 
Haven’t read this thread for 3 weeks

There’s only one reason Labour won’t win the next election, and that’ll be in the left of the party refusing to hold thier nose to vote Labour

I’m not saying it’s like this but this is how the left should view

5 more years of pure misery, laws being ripped up, wealth being further distributed to the 1%, our right being taken away

OR

Someone who will install some of the rights back, will protect some things that important to use. Will stop the the wealth gap widening. Will help waiting times in the nhs. Those thing will still happen, as it did under Blair

Imagine not voting because the party is not left enough but enabling the worst government we have ever had
 
ForssAwakens said:
Haven’t read this thread for 3 weeks

There’s only one reason Labour won’t win the next election, and that’ll be in the left of the party refusing to hold thier nose to vote Labour

I’m not saying it’s like this but this is how the left should view

5 more years of pure misery, laws being ripped up, wealth being further distributed to the 1%, our right being taken away

OR

Someone who will install some of the rights back, will protect some things that important to use. Will stop the the wealth gap widening. Will help waiting times in the nhs. Those thing will still happen, as it did under Blair

Imagine not voting because the party is not left enough but enabling the worst government we have ever had
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Well said. Whatever you feel idealogically you must know, deep down, that undermining labour can only help the Tories. In our current system it'll always be the case
 
SmallTown said:
Well said. Whatever you feel idealogically you must know, deep down, that undermining labour can only help the Tories. In our current system it'll always be the case
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The problem this country has as does America, when you are an effectively a two party system no party we’ll ever truly represent you. You have to compromise

I want everything nationalised. My view is that water gas and elec should be ran for the public in the public’s interest.

I ain’t getting that at the next election, but it still a simple vote for me to vote Labour. My mam when she was alive relied on state benefits, my in laws rely on state benefits, family members have needed them in the past. These people are the some of. The most vulnerable in the U.K. Labour is the best chance of their vulnerability not being preyed on.

As we know tory policies kill those people when, that is even worse during a cost of living crisis and the eradication of the nhs.

Why wouldn’t you hold your nose to effectively save lives over a 5 years period

Politics in this country will always be about compromise, once you accept that, the choice should be an easy one
 
ForssAwakens said:
The problem this country has as does America, when you are an effectively a two party system no party we’ll ever truly represent you. You have to compromise

I want everything nationalised. My view is that water gas and elec should be ran for the public in the public’s interest.

I ain’t getting that at the next election, but it still a simple vote for me to vote Labour. My mam when she was alive relied on state benefits, my in laws rely on state benefits, family members have needed them in the past. These people are the some of. The most vulnerable in the U.K. Labour is the best chance of their vulnerability not being preyed on.

As we know tory policies kill those people when, that is even worse during a cost of living crisis and the eradication of the nhs.

Why wouldn’t you hold your nose to effectively save lives over a 5 years period

Politics in this country will always be about compromise, once you accept that, the choice should be an easy one
Click to expand...
And of course it doesn't mean you can't campaign or argue for the changes you want to see.

Unfortunately, because of our ridiculous system it's just that the ballot box is a a pointless place to do that. You're picking the least worst option or the option that's not as far away from your politics as the others. And that has a chance of winning.

There are plenty in the labour party pushing for more radical change. But even if they get the party leadership to agree those changes they're utterly pointless if they're not in power.
 
SuperStu said:
Seems obvious Starmer should offer an olive branch to the left in that case. Time for some triangulation.



Would be interested to know what that's based on?
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‘’A report by the respected Institute for Fiscal Studies showed the distributional impact of the tax and benefit changes under that last Labour government. The poorest 10% of households gained by something like 13% in their incomes, whilst the richest 10% lost by almost 9%.”

fullfact.org

Labour's record on inequality and social mobility: 1997 to 2010 – Full Fact

In a video on Labour's inequality record Tony Blair lists statistics on topics from the NHS to poverty. The figures are all broadly correct, but also don't include overall income inequality.
fullfact.org fullfact.org

Last time Labour in power, which according some was a right leaning at the time.
 
ForssAwakens said:
‘’A report by the respected Institute for Fiscal Studies showed the distributional impact of the tax and benefit changes under that last Labour government. The poorest 10% of households gained by something like 13% in their incomes, whilst the richest 10% lost by almost 9%.”

fullfact.org

Labour's record on inequality and social mobility: 1997 to 2010 – Full Fact

In a video on Labour's inequality record Tony Blair lists statistics on topics from the NHS to poverty. The figures are all broadly correct, but also don't include overall income inequality.
fullfact.org fullfact.org

Last time Labour in power, which according some was a right leaning at the time.
Click to expand...
I wasnt a fan of Blair as he was weak on Iraq but his economic policies were left off center and every graph on public spending shows this.
 
ForssAwakens said:
The problem this country has as does America, when you are an effectively a two party system no party we’ll ever truly represent you. You have to compromise

I want everything nationalised. My view is that water gas and elec should be ran for the public in the public’s interest.

I ain’t getting that at the next election, but it still a simple vote for me to vote Labour. My mam when she was alive relied on state benefits, my in laws rely on state benefits, family members have needed them in the past. These people are the some of. The most vulnerable in the U.K. Labour is the best chance of their vulnerability not being preyed on.

As we know tory policies kill those people when, that is even worse during a cost of living crisis and the eradication of the nhs.

Why wouldn’t you hold your nose to effectively save lives over a 5 years period

Politics in this country will always be about compromise, once you accept that, the choice should be an easy one
Click to expand...

I won’t hesitate to vote Labour this time (unless the Lib Dem’s represent a better chance of ousting my local Tory MP.)

But it saddens me that I’ll be doing that despite Starmer, rather than because of him and any vision he’s selling.
Still don’t know what he’s really all about but I maintain a tiny glimmer of hope that once in power he will no longer need to try and play it safe and sit on the fence to avoid giving the right wing media any ammo, and he’ll better represent the interests of the majority, the most vulnerable and the working classes.

Maybe it’s just naive wishful thinking on my part though, given his recent track record and actions (or rather lack of). For example, the lack of clarity of support for striking workers is undermining union efforts in my opinion, and in doing so, obviously hurting the working class people he supposedly represents.

But it’s still a no brainer to vote Labour. Anything to get these b***ds who are destroying our country out.
 
Surely the way the country is going those who consider Starmer too centrist have got to hold their nose and vote Labour?
We have to have a change of government in 2 years' time (we need it now, but they have a majority - and will hold on until the last minute)
 
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