Wow. Latest Hartlepool polling...
- Thread starter InglebyUTB
- Start date
InglebyUTB
Well-known member
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
Corbyn saying he was 70% in favour was the right message to send. It informed remainers and waverers alike that whilst membership was best for the country, there was room for improvement along the road.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Well, no we will only know when labour are in government, last time they did a damned good job at the economy and social systems, far better than the Tories that bookended them.
Do people know labour policies? I think they have a decent understanding, but we are so far from a GE that a fully fleshed out manifesto isn't expected.
Brexit clearly is still a distraction, we have several industries decimated by brexit, that would have been the biggest headline of the last 6 months but for covid.
BoroMart
Well-known member
the free port hasn't happened yet, it will almost certainly happen in some form, but don't be surprised if it ends up being about 10% of what you've been told and the vast majority of those businesses don't arrive and others leave. Nationalisation of infrastructure, hmmm, isn't that a labour strategy. Maybe if the people want that they shoul dvote red?
BoroMart
Well-known member
Sorry but that's not true. There are far more over 65s than 18-25 year olds.
Less than 5mill 18-25s and about 12.5mill over 65s. Over 65s are traditionally more likely to vote.
UK population 2020, by age | Statista
In 2020, there were approximately 938.7 thousand people who were aged 55 in the United Kingdom, the most of any age in this year.
www.statista.com
InglebyUTB
Well-known member
Does Starmer support nationalisation of infrastructure?
bear66
Well-known member
Yes.
It was one of his pledges when he was in the Labour leadership election last year:
5. Common ownership
Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.But who knows?
He's already gone back on quite a few of those pledges so they don't seem to be worth all that much. If he does support nationalisation, it's odd that he's so unwilling to speak about it. Especially when the pandemics shown up the value of those policies so strongly in the last year.
InglebyUTB
Well-known member
Exactly @SuperStuIt was one of his pledges when he was in the Labour leadership election last year:
5. Common ownership
Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.
But who knows?
I haven't seen it on one leaflet or heard him speak once about it this campaign. He's gone back on so many of his pledges from last year who knows where he stands on it.
If he does believe it in it, it's a total communication failure of communication on his part.
InglebyUTB
Well-known member
Agreed. Especially if all the party's self promotion is going to be "we're under new management!"
That's the problem with this imo BM. I knew specific policies when Corbyn was leader so it was easier. I suppose that was at least partly because we had a leadership election or general election in 3 of the 4 years. But I also knew the general direction of the policies as well.
With Starmer we've had precious little specific policies (new covid savings bonds, nurses payrise up from 1% to 2.1%, no increase on corporation tax), and so far he's only really told us the general direction of the party is "new management", i.e. not Corbyn.
jam69
Well-known member
Labour were always going to fare poorly in these elections, brexit the vaccine etc, if they had announced a radical manifesto and it led to inevitable defeat then where to from there.
Bide their time until the end ts of brexit and the mismanagement of covid bite and offer a real alternative to the current shambles for the next GE.
I would guess thats the thinking
Bide their time until the end ts of brexit and the mismanagement of covid bite and offer a real alternative to the current shambles for the next GE.
I would guess thats the thinking
TheYorkshireTerrier
Well-known member
Anyone who would usually vote, deciding not to today? Reasons?
InglebyUTB
Well-known member
There is no way you would give Corbyn a free pass at losing a seat Labour has always held, especially after 128k deaths as a result of gross incompetence from the government.
Admit it. If he put his own candidate in against the wishes of the local party, a candidate who's Brexit position was the opposite of his constituents, with questionable sexist tweets and who has expressed support for oppressive regimes who butcher journalists, you would be furious.
If they launched a radical manifesto they probably wouldn't be heading for defeat, and if they did they could build from it. Oh well, better be safe and go for your approach of offering nothing. Better not show the hand too early eh.
The double standards is nauseating. Corbyn suffered a centrist coup and leadership challenge for increasing the vote, Starmer will get a free pass even if he loses a safe seat.
InglebyUTB
Well-known member
I've voted at council level.
Didn't vote Labour for the first time in many years, voted independent.
Labour at this moment in time simply don't deserve my vote.
Who's asking for a manifesto?
The fact is while Corbyn was leader he massively increased the number of Labour members and voters - even if admittedly it wasn't enough for an election win, and even if admittedly it translated in to a pretty sh*t number of seats in 2019. He obviously had an appeal to a number of people.
If the party is going to brand itself as "Under New Management!" and kick Corbyn out the PLP, surely it would just be perfectly sensible to also do something, anything, to give an indication that you want to keep the members and voters Corbyn brought. Otherwise what are they supposed to be voting for?
Also I have to say I don't agree it was a fait accompli that Labour would do badly now. Starmer picked a strategy and the gambles unfortunately failed. In fact my worry would be if too many in Labour treat this as an inevitability they'll miss the lessons they can take.
For me the big errors Starmer has made are:
1) falling in to the trap of being polite and gentle and "not politicising" the pandemic. Boris has been dreadful throughout, never mind the electoral implications of it for a minute, Starmer and Labour have a duty to tell people that reality, and to put pressure on Boris to do better. Way too much "we'll support whatever measures the government decide on" and not enough hammering Boris on skipping meetings, delaying lockdowns, etc.
2) too much emphasis just on competence. It was working and moving Labour up in the polls around last June/July/Autumn, but he should have known something would come along that Boris could point to as a success. A "we'd be the same but better" campaign just won't land as well when Boris is able to say we've got one of the best vaccine rollouts in the world.
3) letting Boris claim the vaccine rollout as a tory success. Everything the tories have privatised to do with the pandemic has been a disaster, and the one bit that's relied on the Labour built state infrastructure has been a massive success. It shouldn't be that hard to turn that to your advantage. Labour definitely shouldn't be talking about some inevitable vaccine bounce for Boris. The reality is he has nothing to do with it, and if they could his party would have long ago privatised the NHS away.
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HolgateCorner
Well-known member
In fairness Corbyn fought two elections, he was given a good run at becoming PM, I actually think he should have stood down after 2017 and handed the baton on to somebody fresh.
InglebyUTB
Well-known member
Which is a fair opinion.
But the PLP wanted him out immediately, when he retained seats and increased the Labour share of the vote.