Will Tory @#×@ get the message from voters ?

Ex Footy Legs said:
I don’t disagree BUT it’s about being SMART thinking and introducing it at the right moment in time, not scuppering a chance to build national momentum.
So, I agree but smart people understand timing.
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It was announced back in 2021 and it was always going to happen regardless of who the Mayor is as it was a condition of the 2020 TfL funding agreement. It is literally government policy.
 
mitch_at_merseyside said:
Last night should have been 3 wipeouts from the Tories, I feel sick to my stomach that they are spinning this into a 'we can win the next election' soundbite, which sadly will be lapped up.
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Uxbridge is the definition of a safe Tory seat.

Not since that seat's creation has it had less than a 5k Tory majority.

Admittedly, that doesn't go back that long, but of the 2 constituencies from which it was formed, one had never had anything but a Tory MP, and the other had been Tory since 1970. However badly the Tories get beaten at the next election ,there will still be Tory seats. We all know this, and there's a good chance this will be one of them.

Of course the Tories' will put what positive spin they can on it, but a majority of 495 in such a seat should cause as much panic as the other 2 defeats.
 
'Last night should have been 3 wipeouts from the Tories, I feel sick to my stomach that they are spinning this into a 'we can win the next election' soundbite, which sadly will be lapped up'

I don't think it will be lapped up at all. Even the Tories don't believe they have a chance and the polls are massively against them
 
Laughing said:
Really? If you are in reciept of credits, excemption is applied. That would be one way. There would be others too. I don't buy that it's impossible.
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It wouldn't work as it would have to be done on a national basis. You're talking about implementing something that would only have an effect on around 10% of cases with that set to fall.

I dont know whether the Outer London expansion is a good idea or not, as I dont know each and every area but I think the inner one has worked well. I worked briefly in Elephant & Castle this year and would walk up to Borough Market some nights. The reduction in traffic and people moving onto bikes and public transport was remarkable.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
It wouldn't work as it would have to be done on a national basis. You're talking about implementing something that would only have an effect on around 10% of cases with that set to fall.

I dont know whether the Outer London expansion is a good idea or not, as I dont know each and every area but I think the inner one has worked well. I worked briefly in Elephant & Castle this year and would walk up to Borough Market some nights. The reduction in traffic and people moving onto bikes and public transport was remarkable.
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Inner london works well as it has good transport. I don't know uxbridge well enough to comment. However to say that only 10% would be coveed so its pointless seems a bit rough. Thats about the figure for universal credit, is that a waste of time as it only helps 10%?

It's not impossible, it's probably not even expensive.

The reason it should be managed differently from the punitive single charge is to not adversely impact one group over another. Overall I agree with ULEZ in london the air quality has improved. If you are rich you can drive where you want. It is inherently biased. A better system would be just to ban any private vehicle, though not a vote winner.
 
from the Guardian

Chris Skidmore, the Conservative MP who led a review of net zero policies for the government, has urged politicians to be honest about the need for policies like the Ulez extension.

Accepting that the Uxbridge byelection became a referendum on Ulez, he said:

The reality is that Ulez was a Conservative policy, introduced by Boris Johnson as mayor and recently agreed by this government to be expanded in May 2020, as part of Covid loans to the mayor. It helps no one in politics if we are not honest about the reality of pollution in our cities and the health consequences of this, but we also need to be honest about what investments are needed to deliver policies with public support.
This is what the net zero review very clearly set out: we need long-term investment to encourage private sector investment and to create a just transition by establishing the effective incentives to decarbonise.
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Ex Footy Legs said:
Because Khan in his lack of ‘reading the room’ and wisdom expanded the ulez charge to outer London thus he’s to blame but he’ll keep on digging a hole for himself
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Thing is Khan is screwed whatever he does on this & its not as simple to just scrap this as a lot of TFL's finances are linked to it they would all have to be renegotiated.

Again the Torys lied and used misinformation to fool the people regarding this.

Bozo started & introduced this but in 2020 Grant Schnapps put the pressure on Khan to expand ULEZ.

This should have been reported every day in the run up to the by election but strangely (not) the media was silent over this until after the event.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1682318098022498304
 
Laughing said:
I think this was a difficult one for starmer. He can't control Khan and distanced himself from the policy because it was clearly a vote looser.

Was that the right thing to do? In by election, probably not. He will get another crack at this seat shortly. By then ulez will have been foisted on the folks of uxbridge.

Starmer, rightly or wrongly, is attempting to make every decision through the prism of the next election. Its very calculated and cold and its why so many dislike him. However he has to work in a skewed environment. If Labour announce an uncoated pledge is hammered in the tory press. The tories have done this twice in the last couple of weeks and not a word from news media outlets. He is terrified of being accused of fiscal irresponsibility. I know its a joke but its the reality of the British electorate. Right now the tories can't attack Labour on anything and stranger wants to keep it that way. If the tories get in at the next election you can say goodbye to the NHS, you can say goodbye to the 100 thousand people that will die whilst the tories push ever more people into abject poverty and goodbye to any real chance of changing how we live in this world and respect its ecosystem.

It's really that important. Starmer recognises this, I believe. And I say this as someone who doesn't particularly like him.
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I’d expect someone who was director of prosecutions to be able to prosecute the case that ULEZ was a Boris Johnson creation, the Tory government have legislated for it and it’s the Tory government who have not given them enough money to offer a proper car scrappage scheme just like the Tories have deliberately underfunded TfL.

But he doesn’t, he just refuses to answer the question as to whether he backs it.

I don’t have any confidence listening to Wes Streeting and Tony Blair (who along with Epstein’s pal are the men in Starmer’s ear) that the NHS would be any safer in this centre right version of Labour than it would be under the Tories.
 
InglebyUTB said:
I’d expect someone who was director of prosecutions to be able to prosecute the case that ULEZ was a Boris Johnson creation, the Tory government have legislated for it and it’s the Tory government who have not given them enough money to offer a proper car scrappage scheme just like the Tories have deliberately underfunded TfL.

But he doesn’t, he just refuses to answer the question as to whether he backs it.

I don’t have any confidence listening to Wes Streeting and Tony Blair (who along with Epstein’s pal are the men in Starmer’s ear) that the NHS would be any safer in this centre right version of Labour than it would be under the Tories.
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That's some stretch to go from ULEZ to the NHS. Mid term by-elections are about local issues. It's for the constituency office to argue these points, not the party leader. And you can't ignore that the party is in an entirely invidious position on ULEZ knowing that there is a mayoral election next year.
 
Easterside_Red said:
That's some stretch to go from ULEZ to the NHS. Mid term by-elections are about local issues. It's for the constituency office to argue these points, not the party leader. And you can't ignore that the party is in an entirely invidious position on ULEZ knowing that there is a mayoral election next year.
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I went from ULEZ to the NHS as the poster I responded to mentioned the NHS.
 
InglebyUTB said:
I’d expect someone who was director of prosecutions to be able to prosecute the case that ULEZ was a Boris Johnson creation, the Tory government have legislated for it and it’s the Tory government who have not given them enough money to offer a proper car scrappage scheme just like the Tories have deliberately underfunded TfL.

But he doesn’t, he just refuses to answer the question as to whether he backs it.

I don’t have any confidence listening to Wes Streeting and Tony Blair (who along with Epstein’s pal are the men in Starmer’s ear) that the NHS would be any safer in this centre right version of Labour than it would be under the Tories.
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You are entitled to your opinion. On ulez I think you are wrong. The details are quite complex and nothing to do with starmer just because khan was a labour mp. As said above the expansion was foisted on khan.

Most of what folks say about starmer I find repetetive both the good and bad. Nothing new gets said and all the arguments have been had.

You know what I think, I said so in the post you replied to. I know what the detractors think too, it gets repeated often enough. This isn't a jibe at you but the political collective that never get tired of going in circles.
 
Nobby_Barnes said:
You should all be voting for the Green Party if you want to save the planet for your grandchildren !
Record temperatures across the world, floods and famine is what we have to look forward to if massive changes aren't made NOW...
Take your heads out of the sand and concentrate on the real and only issue !!!
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the planet will survive quite happily thanks, it's the human race that wont !
 
Laughing said:
Starmer, rightly or wrongly, is attempting to make every decision through the prism of the next election. Its very calculated and cold and its why so many dislike him.
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Not sure I agree tbh. Starmer mainly seems to have gotten lucky that the tories self destructed so much with partygate and Trussonomics. Getting himself described as "Sir Kid Starver" on Newsnight and Good Morning Britain the week of 3 byelections was hardly a cold, calculated chess move.

From my perspective it's more like a reflex. If he gets asked about any policy at all he instinctively walks it back now. His supporters gush over how clever it is, but there's no deep thinking. It's just rinse and repeat.
 
SuperStu said:
Getting himself described as "Sir Kid Starver" on Newsnight and Good Morning Britain the week of 3 byelections was hardly a cold, calculated chess move.
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Who by, faceless sad twitter 'personalities'? Have they moved on from the other childish name calling now?
 
SuperStu said:
Not sure I agree tbh. Starmer mainly seems to have gotten lucky that the tories self destructed so much with partygate and Trussonomics. Getting himself described as "Sir Kid Starver" on Newsnight and Good Morning Britain the week of 3 byelections was hardly a cold, calculated chess move.

From my perspective it's more like a reflex. If he gets asked about any policy at all he instinctively walks it back now. His supporters gush over how clever it is, but there's no deep thinking. It's just rinse and repeat.
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I disagree with this completely. If he can't cost the increase in 2 child benefit and not be attacked by tory press then, as far as he is concerned, he did the right thing and I understand that approach. There is plenty about him I don't like. I don't like his answer ot rolling back the 2 child benefit cap, for example. I do agree with him refusing to rollback the protest bill, but not because I agree with the bill. I am also cerain he doesn't either.

He didn't get lucky with the implosion of the tories, he directly caused it. It started with partygate and the setup of johnson over several weeks. This trapped johnson in a series of lies. This led to him misleading parliament, the investigation and, along with the sex pest bloke, got Johnson deposed as PM. In a couple of PMQ's after Johnson had told another lie, Starmer responded with "We'll leave that there for now" then 2, 3 or more weeks later, he would come back to it and catch anothe lie.

His demise led to Truss, which led to Sunak.

To be honest, if you can't see that starmer is directly responsible for the fall of the tories then it is really pointless discussing it with you, you can't see the obvious because you don't like him, and thats fine, just doesn't make for open and honest debate. This was what I was alluding to earlier with the repetitive arguments on here about Starmer.
 
Laughing said:
He didn't get lucky with the implosion of the tories, he directly caused it. It started with partygate and the setup of johnson over several weeks. This trapped johnson in a series of lies. This led to him misleading parliament, the investigation and, along with the sex pest bloke, got Johnson deposed as PM. In a couple of PMQ's after Johnson had told another lie, Starmer responded with "We'll leave that there for now" then 2, 3 or more weeks later, he would come back to it and catch anothe lie.

His demise led to Truss, which led to Sunak.

To be honest, if you can't see that starmer is directly responsible for the fall of the tories then it is really pointless discussing it with you, you can't see the obvious because you don't like him, and thats fine, just doesn't make for open and honest debate. This was what I was alluding to earlier with the repetitive arguments on here about Starmer.
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this .....

Johnson MAY have self destructed anyway - he normally did - but Starmer in PMQs helped and accelerated setting him up. Johnson couldn't cope with him at the despatch box.

Reading the Seldon book, all obvious etc .... apart from that Seldon was a Johnson fan in the past
 
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