Wilder

I see it a bit differently, in that the club were hoping that Wilders tenure would settle after the skirmishes with Burnley, Bournemouth etc, but it obviously became clear that it would, plus the results were horrendous.
It just surprises me when you consider how ruthless Gibson was in getting shot of Monk when he showed an interest in the Swansea job, although maybe the club were also aware of what had been going on with Monk's agent at the time as well.
 
It just surprises me when you consider how ruthless Gibson was in getting shot of Monk when he showed an interest in the Swansea job, although maybe the club were also aware of what had been going on with Monk's agent at the time as well.
I think was sacked because of some allegedly shady transfer dealings that involved his agent, Fletcher being one.

It was reported at the time IIRC
 
I think was sacked because of some allegedly shady transfer dealings that involved his agent, Fletcher being one.

It was reported at the time IIRC


Yeah, Monk's sacking is surely one of the most acrimonious we've had.

Which does make it more annoying that Sky often get him as a pundit for our games.
 
Which does make it more annoying that Sky often get him as a pundit for our games.
Don’t watch Sky much so haven’t noticed Monk as a pundit. Does he come across differently when he does Boro matches?
 
Don’t watch Sky much so haven’t noticed Monk as a pundit. Does he come across differently when he does Boro matches?

I'll be honest, it's rare I watch the Sky Championship matches outside of Boro's, so I couldn't tell you.

I usually watch our Sky away matches in a pub, so I miss the punditry anyway.

The few matches I've caught in the house had him acting as robotic as he did in the press conferences whilst here though.
 
He should have been told to go immediately after the Burnley incident. It was clear his heart wasn’t in it and he had been turned.

We might not be in our current predicament if Gibson had grown a pair and shown him the door
Have not read the rest of this thread, but I agree with this post. The only thing was at that time, understandably, not everyone was unanimous in agreeing he was clearly getting tetchy in that 'you don't need to ask me that' interview after we'd had a shocking result because it was so obvious he wanted out yet was unable to admit it. He took it out on the players/club and even the fans to some extent during the rest of his time here. A lot thought we were reading him wrong though, and his heart was still in it :ROFLMAO:

The point he said the fans need a reality check about the true level the club is at and that we're not a PL club any longer, it was absolutely clear he was done here.

I wouldn't have been so bitter if he had just kept his frustrations within himself but appeared to be a selfish character that lacked integrity and class. Was a total change from the words he chose when he joined the club in terms of his ambition and where we should be.

Gibson didn't act sooner as he has always been decent enough to give managers a second chance, but this time he should have just ended it in the Summer and given Carrick that time to do more with the team .. though I guess Carrick at the time may not have been available or what not.

Whatever, anyway. Initially, I was delighted when Chris Wilder joined us and thought it was a perfect fit, and was totally wrong. I think the guy is a pr1ck and it will be interesting to see where he goes next and what he has to say about his time here if he ever reveals anything.

I understand the way we operate has frustrated our head coaches in the past, Warnock included, but at least the likes of Warnock did not behave like a t1t and absolutely ruin the morale all around the place.

We move on. I wish Michael Carrick the best ... must admit had my doubts about giving him the role given where we are in the league, but got to hand the man credit for still taking the job on and I think so far, he has come across with class in his interviews. He does not come across as a rookie coach, it is like he has been doing it for a longer time than he has.

I hope we go on to do good things under his leadership and perhaps even manage to get into the top half of the table come to the end of this season. You never know, mind .. as this league is crazy but I think the damage has already been done in terms of us getting a top-six place this time around. None of that is Carrick's fault, obviously.

*edit - must admit, was shocked Woody is back .. though I hope this time it works out. I think he proved at Bournemouth that he is actually a decent coach and I was convinced when they handed him the caretaker role they were going to tumble right out of the top six.. but he did a decent job .. as long as Carrick is not just warming the bosses seat for him again like last time under Pulis, I am OK with it :ROFLMAO:
 
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I think he struggled to cope with the pressure.

Maybe the Sheff U relegation meltdown had a long term affect on him.
I think his experience at Sheffield United, where he really worked a miracle to get them as high as he did just made him think he was a step away from being an elite manager.
This is why he demanded treating as such, he believed his own hype and thought anything he touched would turn to gold
 
I think his experience at Sheffield United, where he really worked a miracle to get them as high as he did just made him think he was a step away from being an elite manager.
This is why he demanded treating as such, he believed his own hype and thought anything he touched would turn to gold
I did used to notice at times he used to like to make it about himself after we'd won.

"This is how I am, I always play to win and not to settle for the draw".
 
He was.. based on what he had identified, he’d tried to bring in Balogun at Sheff Utd

Is this the player he told to find another club and told to stay away from pre season?

He pulled the rig from under his own.. he said Mowett was the best we could have done replacing Tavernier (who we were told was leaving last summer)

Muniz wasn’t signed as a development striker, Forss won promotion with Brentford & Hoppe had a decent season in the Bundesliga.. enough to earn a move to La Liga!

Still, Dwight Gayle & David McGoldrick preferred over them THREE?!?!
Balogun - Doesn't mean he tried to bring him in here though, horses for courses and all that. I actually don't think this was one of our bad deals either way mind, we just got in on him too early, had we kept him for this year he'd have possibly been better than anything else we have, and certainly better than Forss or Hoppe, and with a brighter future. Not saying we could have bought him though, zero chance of that.

Did he tell Chuba to stay away? Why would he do that, he'd probably never even seen him train or play. I bet that's an instance of the club telling him "you don't want him back", but then we had to bring him back as we had b***r all else. Anyway, Wilder got more out of him in 10 minutes, than anyone else previously had.

Mowatt was probably about 10th on the list, he was probably being kind to the recruitment if he said that, the "we" including the recruitment team and Gibbo etc. Mowatt was the best he was given by the club, doesn't say a great deal about what Wilder wanted. You can bet your hat that nobody in their right mind would even think he could replace Tav, not when Wilder basically made Tav into our best player.

Muniz is 21 and largely unproven, he's a development striker, and will be until he's developed, which is a few years yet. Limited stats for Fulham who scored over 100 goals does not give a good indication of player ability. All we know is he couldn't get in the side because of Mitrovic, and that Fulham also didn't want him this year, no shame in that mind, Mitro's unreal and Fulham are in the Prem. I still think Muniz is possibly good enough for what we need mind, or at least he started that way. certainly good enough to be one of first 3/5 strikers in a side pushing for playoffs.

A team with Forss starting a lot of games up front wouldn't have been promoted in 20/21, and wouldn't in 22/23. Toney got Brentford promoted (31 goals), and Forss was nowhere near Toney then and isn't now anywhere near where Toney was 3 years ago. Forss only started 6 games, and some were at left wing. His goals per minute were good, but of course Brentford create a lot of chances and were not exactly defensive.

Gayle was far more proven than any of them, but that is no guarantee he could still do that mind, there was more of a guarantee he couldn't, and there was no indication that we wanted him as our main man, other than the rumour mill. McGoldrick was possibly looked at as more of a second fiddle hold up player, but again, there's no certainty that Widler wanted him, especially as a starter. He might have spoken to him as he could see we were getting nowt else. Then Chuba filled that role well, and ended up scoring too, so the need for McGoldrick greatly decreased. I expect he was only spoken to as Wilder knew him, and knew we could get him for nowt (which is what the club seemed to be interested in spending on players Wilder wanted).

Having seen what we bought in summer, and what Wilder was expecting us to get, my bias on transfers is heavily towards blaming the club for the players we sold, the quality of players we bought, and the quality of the players we didn't buy. I'm not saying we had the money though, maybe we did, maybe we didn't, but I get the impression Wilder was expecting us to be spending the money we received on actual proven quality. This isn't an excuse for Wilder either mind, but he didn't seem to be able to adapt well to the Tav loss, and lack of a proven no 1 striker. I still maintain that in the earlier games this year we were playing more than well enough to be much higher up the league, but the bad luck went on too long, and self doubt and lack of confidence set in, which Wilder couldn't break.

They're all to blame, Gibbo, Recruitment, Wilder and the players, they should have all done much better, and the only way to correct it was to press the reset switch, but there's no proof that doing that will, anytime soon.
 
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A team with Forss starting a lot of games up front wouldn't have been promoted in 20/21, and wouldn't in 22/23. Toney got Brentford promoted (31 goals), and Forss was nowhere near Toney then and isn't now anywhere near where Toney was 3 years ago. Forss only started 6 games, and some were at left wing. His goals per minute were good, but of course Brentford create a lot of chances and were not exactly defensive.
414/10/21ABrentford FC(3.)Preston North EndPreston (16.)0:5 CF179'
424/17/21HBrentford FC(3.)Millwall FCMillwall (9.)0:0 CF90'
434/20/21HBrentford FC(3.)Cardiff CityCardiff (8.)1:1 CF90'
444/24/21ABrentford FC(3.)AFC BournemouthBournemouth (4.)0:1 CF68'74'
354/27/21HBrentford FC(3.)Rotherham UnitedRotherham (20.)1:0 CF16'
455/1/21HBrentford FC(3.)Watford FCWatford (2.)2:0 CF174'
465/8/21ABrentford FC(3.)Bristol CityBristol City (19.)1:3 CF65
It was at the business end of the season that 21yo Marcus Forss started getting game time He scored late in the playoff tie against Bournmouth to win it for them.. Brentford would not have been promoted without him genuinely.

3 years younger than Toney and still regarded as the better finisher of the two
 
Wilder gave me some great moments as a fan last year, Man Utd and Spurs Cup games and some of the football around Christmas, Forest and Derby at home was fantastic, we also scored some fantastic team goals, like QPR away.

I think he underestimated the expectations at Boro and probably over estimated his own achievements in the past. I still think that too much is made of the Burnley speculation, these things happen in football and maybe he was interested, but that was only a problem because he was doing well with us at the time!

After the way last season ended, he needed to get off to a good start and was a little unlucky early in the season, but as soon as criticism reared its head he struggled. I wouldn't put him down as one of our poorer managers, but disappointed how it all unraveled, but I guess that's modern football?
 
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Was buzzing when we appointed Wilder, thought he was the perfect fit for us, and for a long time it looked like that was the case.
Had some brilliant games with him as manager, including after the Burnley saga.
That demolition of Stoke in our final home game last season was one of our best performances, and it could have been 5-0.

Sadly his mentality and attitude let him down.
He broke down the bond between himself and the club/fans.
Too spikey and too arrogant when it mattered.

He'd certainly have been given more time this season if it was just down to results.
 
414/10/21ABrentford FC(3.)Preston North EndPreston (16.)0:5CF179'
424/17/21HBrentford FC(3.)Millwall FCMillwall (9.)0:0CF90'
434/20/21HBrentford FC(3.)Cardiff CityCardiff (8.)1:1CF90'
444/24/21ABrentford FC(3.)AFC BournemouthBournemouth (4.)0:1CF68'74'
354/27/21HBrentford FC(3.)Rotherham UnitedRotherham (20.)1:0CF16'
455/1/21HBrentford FC(3.)Watford FCWatford (2.)2:0CF174'
465/8/21ABrentford FC(3.)Bristol CityBristol City (19.)1:3CF65
It was at the business end of the season that 21yo Marcus Forss started getting game time He scored late in the playoff tie against Bournmouth to win it for them.. Brentford would not have been promoted without him genuinely.

3 years younger than Toney and still regarded as the better finisher of the two
He only got in the side because they switched to 3-5-2, from 4-3-3/ 4-5-1, no idea why they did that, but they didn't do it for the 39 games before, which got them into third.

Who regards him as a better finisher? I'm not saying he isn't a good finisher (or he is), but to say he's better than Toney who scored 31 is a bit of a stretch. Toney also got 1 in 3 first season in the prem, and is 2 in 3 this year, not to mention the 40 in 76 he got in League 1 over 5 years at 6 different clubs. Forss has got zero chance of being as good a finisher with his head. Being a great finisher is pointless if you don't touch the ball or go missing. I'd rather have a player scoring 1 in 3 chances, and finding three chances, over a guy scoring 1 in 2, and finding one chance.

If I'm putting 40 crosses into the box, I want Toney in there (even the League 1 Toney), not Forss. Maybe if I'm creating 40 one on ones, then I might pick Forss, but one on ones are quite rare, and Toney would be more than good enough at those. Toney probably also better at finding the one on ones.

I'm not writing Forss off though, far from it, but he seems a bit soft and certainly lacking confidence. He would have probably suited the management style of Warnock better (maybe Leo or Carrick too, and not Pulis etc), doesn't seem Wilder type player, which is why it seemed a strange signing (looking back). At the time I was just looking at his stats, thinking that goal record wasn't bad, per minute, but when you look more at the type of player he is, and the chances he likely got at Brentford, then it didn't seem a great fit with Wilder. Looks like the club were thinking longer term, but expected Wilder to not be part of that.
 
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He only got in the side because they switched to 3-5-2, from 4-3-3/ 4-5-1, no idea why they did that, but they didn't do it for the 39 games before, which got them into third.

Who regards him as a better finisher? I'm not saying he isn't a good finisher (or he is), but to say he's better than Toney who scored 31 is a bit of a stretch. Toney also got 1 in 3 first season in the prem, and is 2 in 3 this year, not to mention the 40 in 76 he got in League 1 over 5 years at 6 different clubs. Forss has got zero chance of being as good a finisher with his head. Being a great finisher is pointless if you don't touch the ball or go missing. I'd rather have a player scoring 1 in 3 chances, and finding three chances, over a guy scoring 1 in 2, and finding one chance.

If I'm putting 40 crosses into the box, I want Toney in there (even the League 1 Toney), not Forss. Maybe if I'm creating 40 one on ones, then I might pick Forss, but one on ones are quite rare, and Toney would be more than good enough at those. Toney probably also better at finding the one on ones.

I'm not writing Forss off though, far from it, but he seems a bit soft and certainly lacking confidence. He would have probably suited the management style of Warnock better (maybe Leo or Carrick too, and not Pulis etc), doesn't seem Wilder type player, which is why it seemed a strange signing (looking back). At the time I was just looking at his stats, thinking that goal record wasn't bad, per minute, but when you look more at the type of player he is, and the chances he likely got at Brentford, then it didn't seem a great fit with Wilder. Looks like the club were thinking longer term, but expected Wilder to not be part of that.
Forss reminds me of Jordon Rhodes, works hard, great finisher, but don't expect too much in other areas of the pitch.

I think he could score goals for us, plenty in fact, but we havent worked out how to get the best from him yet. I definitely think he works far better with another striker, either a 9 of a 10, but in terms of how we get him on the end of the ball in the box I'm not we've got close to cracking that yet.
 
I know Carrick said he was pleased with Forss the other night, but to me he didn't look particularly threatening as a lone striker, Muniz offered more threat in his brief cameo, and I don't particularly like Muniz. I guess we need someone with Forss's work rate and Muniz's ability!
 
Forss reminds me of Jordon Rhodes, works hard, great finisher, but don't expect too much in other areas of the pitch.

I think he could score goals for us, plenty in fact, but we havent worked out how to get the best from him yet. I definitely think he works far better with another striker, either a 9 of a 10, but in terms of how we get him on the end of the ball in the box I'm not we've got close to cracking that yet.
I can't remember Rhodes chasing and closing down defenders the way Forss does.
 
Amazing all these ‘red flags’ people are and always were aware of with Wilder. I don’t remember reading anything negative about him this time last year, save for a couple of posters who didn’t seem keen throughout his whole tenure.

Be interested to dig up some of those old threads and have a look at who was warning us about Wilder’s character all those months ago.
 
Amazing all these ‘red flags’ people are and always were aware of with Wilder. I don’t remember reading anything negative about him this time last year, save for a couple of posters who didn’t seem keen throughout his whole tenure.

Be interested to dig up some of those old threads and have a look at who was warning us about Wilder’s character all those months ago.
I posted this in September as it was clear there were big issues

 
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