Why are the Far Right rising?

[1finny]

A good article from the ever reliable Byline Times

 

[r00fie1]

As far as I am aware:

"Immigrants" have / did not:

Sell off good quality local authority housing into the private sector.

Force people into the private rented sector.

Stop building adequate good quality affordable social housing.

Allow energy companies to financially export £Trillions in profits whilst the majority of us struggle to pay basic bills.

Deregulate buses so that private companies can cherry-pick profitable services and isolate urban and rural communities.

Sell off public assets to private shareholders and foreign owned companies.

Privatise the Railways to foreign state-owned enterprises.

Sell off Gas, Water and Electricity to multi-national private profiteers.

Sell off school playing fields to private house builders and estate agents.

Close local libraries and drop-in centres.

Cut the number of mental health beds in hospitals whilst reducing availability of support services in the community.

Cut resources available to local police forces, including closing local police stations.

Privatise huge chunks of the NHS with money going to foreign multi-national private care profit makers.

Cut government finance to local authorities to fulfil their statutory obligations regards adult and child social care.

Force Local Authorities to act as brokers for Central Government and attack local democracy.

Cause potholes in Linthorpe Road by reducing repairs budgets for local infrastructure.

Etc, etc.

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

The Russian/ Ukraine war the cost of living the gaza situation many people are seeing their standard of living falling. Through the choas the right wing gain support as scape goats are created as we saw in the EU referendum

In this country it’s because of the media, the right wing media plus the likes of Sky and the bbc debating migration (issue) when the truth is the nhs would crumble without migration, so would the care sector and the hospitality industry along with the crop picking sectors and that’s just for starters (!!!!!)
Basically, the country would fall apart….that’s how critical they are to our economy.

 

[Redwurzel]

I keep coming back to your post as it intrigues me.

You say you do not care but then you must care enough to post about it and then call all political parties liars. I always struggle with this mindset. They aren’t all as bad as each other. Even if they were all liars some will lie more than others.

Political apathy is why we are in the state we are in. People not caring and voting using soundbites from a skewed media. Your comment in particular about immigration could well be one of these.

Now I don’t know if you are left, right, centre, Tory, Labour, Lib, none of the above but I would say the following about what you asked and the message you replied to:

- We have always had controlled immigration, even in the EU. It is a political choice how many immigrants you allow in to the country.

- Immigration did rise under Blair but this coincided with a period of economic boom. These workers were needed to grow the economy. House prices weren’t going crazy, public services were funded and Labour never waged a war against the immigrant so in the eyes of the media / public all was good.

- The global financial crisis hit and we got Tories. They are a party of division and love to wage a war against Johnny Foreigner. This suited their Brexit narrative to a tee. They forgot all the good the immigrants did the economy and decided to turn on them to aid their cause. The problem here is you have to be competent in other areas of Government to reduce immigration. You have to skill workers up, have an effective benefits system to support people back to work, a good industrial strategy, you need to grow the economy and increase earnings so you don’t need cheap foreign workers. Sadly the Tories just cut everything. And now they can’t even control immigration.

It’s a strange issue for the Tories is immigration. Even if the country needs it to grow (it probably does as we have too many vacancies) half the party detest it. So again we have policy which cuts of the country’s nose of despite its face just to satisfy Tory infighting and to cling to power. A trait all too common with the Tories.

So, the Tories have failed. It doesn’t matter what Blair did, the economy was growing. Under the last 13 years of Tory the economy has stagnated. They are the liars and they have no idea what they are doing. All they want to do it stay in power.

What happened under Blair was a lot of new countries entered the EU - most of Eastern Europe. At the time wages were low in these countries and job opportunities limited. Young people would hop on a coach and travel for 24 hours to the UK, to get job for 5 times what they could earn in their own country, if they could find work there. Blair in my opinion mistakenly allowed completely unrestricted immigration with no transistional limits. Nearly every other country in Western Europe put limits in place. Hence the UK became the prime location to immigrate too. Many of these young people have helped the UK and quite a few integrated into the UK, but the numbers were high in a short period. Probably most have now left the UK as wages here are effectively the same as their home country.

 

[Since1973]

The biggest users of the NHS by some distance are pensioners. The lowest contributors to the funding of it via taxes are..... pensioners.

Least likely to use it - immigrants (generally younger and healthier).

Are you saying a pensioner who has worked and paid tax in this country all their working lives, and are in a lot of cases still paying tax have contributed less to the NHS than an immigrant who has recently arrived in the country?

Ridiculous comment

 

[NYboro]

Are you saying a pensioner who has worked and paid tax in this country all their working lives, and are in a lot of cases still paying tax have contributed less to the NHS than an immigrant who has recently arrived in the country?

Ridiculous comment

Not what he's saying at all. Pensioners do use the NHS far more than immigrants.

 

[Stocko]

I agree a lot of people think like that, but they're being lied to.

Immigrants are net contributors to the economy. If there isn't enough access to public services then that's because the government choose not to invest the additional tax revenue in them. Convenient scapegoat though.

The biggest users of the NHS by some distance are pensioners. The lowest contributors to the funding of it via taxes are..... pensioners.

Least likely to use it - immigrants (generally younger and healthier).

In general terms the demographic most likely to have issue with immigrants - pensioners.

No doubt partly because they believe they're a drain on the NHS

Dear me.

 

[Since1973]

Not what he's saying at all. Pensioners do use the NHS far more than immigrants.

And as a rule they will have contributed and still will be contributing a lot of tax to contribute towards their use of the service

 

[festa5]

Are you saying a pensioner who has worked and paid tax in this country all their working lives, and are in a lot of cases still paying tax have contributed less to the NHS than an immigrant who has recently arrived in the country?

Ridiculous comment

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. Wind your neck in.

They of course have paid their share and are fully entitled to have access to the NHS.

But demand is increasing as the population ages. People are living longer. That's where the pressure on the NHS is coming from, not immigrants.

 

[festa5]

Dear me.

If you don't understand my post I'm happy to clarify. As per my other post it's not a suggestion pensioners haven't paid their fair share or aren't deserving of access to it.

But it needs funding NOW. Any criticism is of anyone who believes immigrants are the cause of pressure on the NHS (cost and capacity) because that is factually incorrect and a lie the government want people to believe.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Although I agree with your point, there's no getting away from the fact that this country can't handle the extra people in these current times. Whether they are students, working professionals, asylum seekers or illegal immigrants the fact remains. There is a housing crisis. The NHS is under massive strain. The public transport systems are at capacity. Unemployment is on the rise.

These are all largely the fault of the government with some external factors thrown in, but they are all true. Reducing immigration to prevent population rises seems sensible until these issues are properly tackled.

Actually BG, the universities can't handle not having migrants studying, and the NHS would collapse without migrants, as would the transport system in some areas.

If you've voted Tory and for Brexit you've actually made our dependence on the above a reality.

 

[boroboy6872]

I stand by what I said no where did I mention skin colour but if you think walking down parliament road is not intimidating with the gangs of men on all the corners is not intimidating that’s your opinion. It was not like that in the 80,90 that’s a fact

Interesting

My wife

5ft 4 inches

Petit

Caucasian

Walks from Marton Road to her job on Newport Road via Albert Park, Linthorpe Road, Ayrsome Gardens, Parliament Road, Union Street and then Victoria Street

Never once said to me she feels intimidated.
Even when I pick her up from work in the car and drive back through I don`t see gangs of men stood on all corners.

What i do see is shop keepers stood outside their shops talking to locals, old ladies pushing trollies full of shopping, young families with kids going about their business

Your talking a load of ***** pal

 

[Nano]

As far as I am aware:

"Immigrants" have / did not:

Sell off good quality local authority housing into the private sector.
Force people into the private rented sector.
Stop building adequate good quality affordable social housing.
Allow energy companies to financially export £Trillions in profits whilst the majority of us struggle to pay basic bills.
Deregulate buses so that private companies can cherry-pick profitable services and isolate urban and rural communities.
Sell off public assets to private shareholders and foreign owned companies.
Privatise the Railways to foreign state-owned enterprises.
Sell off Gas, Water and Electricity to multi-national private profiteers.
Sell off school playing fields to private house builders and estate agents.
Close local libraries and drop-in centres.
Cut the number of mental health beds in hospitals whilst reducing availability of support services in the community.
Cut resources available to local police forces, including closing local police stations.
Privatise huge chunks of the NHS with money going to foreign multi-national private care profit makers.
Cut government finance to local authorities to fulfil their statutory obligations regards adult and child social care.
Force Local Authorities to act as brokers for Central Government and attack local democracy.
Cause potholes in Linthorpe Road by reducing repairs budgets for local infrastructure.

Etc, etc.

You are of course correct but it is all irrelevant really. If you look at immigration as a numbers issue and not a people issue (which sounds horrible but I don't intend it to) then the numbers involved to accommodate so many additional people there will never stack up, no matter which politician we had or how well we spent the money. We can't build the houses, the infrastructure, the new hospitals, GP surgeries, schools etc fast enough and that's before we get anywhere near the question of training enough people to staff them.

100% there could be a million better choices made around how we prioritise and fund public infrastructure and spending but the maximum rate of inflation should match the expansion rate of that infrastructure growth, just to stand still (that doesn't even come close to addressing what is needed for the people already here). I don't believe it has matched that rate at any point in the last 30 years. Net migration at the start of the 90s was 44k, this year it is 700k. The population has increased, almost entirely driven by immigration, from 57m to 68m. A massive 19%. We only ever hear about spending on public services. We never hear about capacity and that is because they don't want to tell people that we are not increasing capacity with that spending. Also, don't expect it to change when Labour win the next election. While politicians know they can get away with talking about spending in absolute terms instead of capacity and per capita then they will.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Interesting

My wife

5ft 4 inches

Petit

Caucasian

Walks from Marton Road to her job on Newport Road via Albert Park, Linthorpe Road, Ayrsome Gardens, Parliament Road, Union Street and then Victoria Street

Never once said to me she feels intimidated.
Even when I pick her up from work in the car and drive back through I don`t see gangs of men stood on all corners.

What i do see is shop keepers stood outside their shops talking to locals, old ladies pushing trollies full of shopping, young families with kids going about their business

Your talking a load of ***** pal

I was down there yesterday, that's exactly what I saw. Didn't walk that far but it reminds me the shops when I was a kid. The only difference being that most of those working in the shops are male.

 

[B_G]

Actually BG, the universities can't handle not having migrants studying, and the NHS would collapse without migrants, as would the transport system in some areas.

If you've voted Tory and for Brexit you've actually made our dependence on the above a reality.

Migrants are vital. Agree.
However the a dramatic increase in population is detrimental.
Controlling population numbers is also vital.

I didn't vote Tory and didn't vote Brexit. Not sure what has given you that impression. Some of the attitudes of people on this board stink when it comes to anything political

 

[Since1973]

But demand is increasing as the population ages.

I agree demand is increasing as the population ages - but demand is also increasing because more people live in the country, it has to increase demand. That applies to every public service.

And it will continue to increase as the people moving to the country will also become pensioners, have children who will also become pensioners so they are / will be a drain on services.

I don’t know what the answer is - we do need some immigration to fill job vacancies, but you could drive around a lot of estates in Teesside and point out people who should be filling some of these vacancies but they are obviously well enough off not to need to work!!

When you say “wind your neck in” does that mean I’m not allowed to question your comment?

 

[sweet_left_foot]

Although I agree with your point, there's no getting away from the fact that this country can't handle the extra people in these current times. Whether they are students, working professionals, asylum seekers or illegal immigrants the fact remains. There is a housing crisis. The NHS is under massive strain. The public transport systems are at capacity. Unemployment is on the rise.

These are all largely the fault of the government with some external factors thrown in, but they are all true. Reducing immigration to prevent population rises seems sensible until these issues are properly tackled.

or we could invest in fixing the infrastructure and stimulate economic growth.
What happens when the infrastructure can't cope with the people being born here, euthanasia?

 

[festa5]

I agree demand is increasing as the population ages - but demand is also increasing because more people live in the country, it has to increase demand. That applies to every public service.

And it will continue to increase as the people moving to the country will also become pensioners, have children who will also become pensioners so they are / will be a drain on services.

I don’t know what the answer is - we do need some immigration to fill job vacancies, but you could drive around a lot of estates in Teesside and point out people who should be filling some of these vacancies but they are obviously well enough off not to need to work!!

When you say “wind your neck in” does that mean I’m not allowed to question your comment?

Of course you can question it.

Just the same as if someone has a pop and tells me I've made a "ridiculous comment" I can tell them to wind their neck in (no hard feelings).

and yep, agree there are no simple answers and immigration is a complex issue. We need working age people to offset the increasing proportion of the population who are retired. Immigration is part of that solution but it shouldn't be at the cost of suppressing wages etc.

In terms of the NHS, again no easy solution, but numerous studies have shown immigration isn't the problem. It only becomes part of the problem if the government chooses not to invest the increased revenue immigration provides to ensure it has capacity, not just for them, but for everyone else.

Unfortunately the current government are pretty much ideologically opposed to that.

 

[GibbosEmpire]

My local area they're adding thousands and thousands of houses but not building infrastructure to keep up with demand.

 

[Ziggy]

“It’s not people arriving by rubber boats that are your enemy…it those flying in on jetliners”