Why are the Far Right rising?
- Thread starter GibbosEmpire
- Start date
speckyget
Well-known member
Not as big a problem as racial intolerance.
Paintolerance
Well-known member
Thing is, your initial comment suggested Boro looks 'worse' because of immigration. So, its not a quantum leap to think you reckon there are too many brown faces. I'm not sure how else you take it.
As an aside, in terms of no go areas - I've had occasional grief in Boro and, only 2 weeks ago (during the day, in the middle of town) had to have words with a drunk shouting abuse at my 14 yr old lad (the bloke had alreading screamed in the face of a lady pushing a pram 30 seconds earlier as we approached). He was not an immigrant, and on none of the other occasions were they either.
We do need to be clear about where the numbers coming in are going. As I said earlier the largest group are students and most will go back once finishing their courses so the overall numbers will drop soon (there has been a big rise recently). The next big group is people coming to work in the health sector and that is because we are very short off nurses and care staff etc. These people are filling a need. If we want to reduce this number we need more people to train to be nurses etc. The smallest group (very small numbers relatively) are those coming in by boats although this group gets the biggest focus.
Omega
Active member
I stand by what I said no where did I mention skin colour but if you think walking down parliament road is not intimidating with the gangs of men on all the corners is not intimidating that’s your opinion. It was not like that in the 80,90 that’s a fact
festa5
Well-known member
What gets me, and I know this is a massive oversimplification, but these leaders tend to look a lot like you'd expect them to, as in evil, incompetent, crooks.
Boris - looks and acts like an incompetent buffoon. Yes part of its an act but it's also how he ran the country.
Farage - looks like chunt. Is a chunt.
Truss - looks like someone on day release from a mental hospital.
Trump - no explanation necessary.
This Dutch fella looks like he's just walked off the set of the latest bond movie. He's just missing a cat.
The gullibility of people never ceases to amaze.
Boris - looks and acts like an incompetent buffoon. Yes part of its an act but it's also how he ran the country.
Farage - looks like chunt. Is a chunt.
Truss - looks like someone on day release from a mental hospital.
Trump - no explanation necessary.
This Dutch fella looks like he's just walked off the set of the latest bond movie. He's just missing a cat.
The gullibility of people never ceases to amaze.
But our population still rises whether people are living here temporarily or permanently.
Students still use the health care system, they still need somewhere to live, they still use public transport. All of these sectors are already struggling massively with the current population.
Students still use the health care system, they still need somewhere to live, they still use public transport. All of these sectors are already struggling massively with the current population.
Ok you've convinced me. Let's keep increasing the population by 700k people per year. That is definitely going to relieve the stress on the already struggling housing market and NHS
Omega
Active member
Who is racial intolerant
iamborome
Well-known member
It is a symptom of the failure of 40 years of neoliberalism. The idea that markets know best, that Adam Smith's "invisible hand" translated as "greed is good", leading to privatisation, deregulation and massive inequality. The central idea that "freeing the markets" would supercharge the economy and we would all be much better off, has been an utter failure. Deregulation of the financial sector lead the world economy to the brink of disaster - bailed out by the public. Since then, the economy has failed to recover, growth is stagnant and our standards of living have dropped.
The problem is that when ideologies fail, instead of fundamental change, believers double down.
As Gramsci said:
The problem is that when ideologies fail, instead of fundamental change, believers double down.
As Gramsci said:
“The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.”
NYboro
Well-known member
There is no point training then when they only go abroad because we don't pay them what they're worth.
You're too kind in presuming day-release for Truss. She's more like an abscondee.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Around 50% of the Boat people are not allowed to stay here once they have been assessed.
I do think there has to be some controlled immigration. It does take time to socially integrate and that is from both sides. Immigration will also by its nature increase the supply of labour and thus put downward pressure on wages and salaries, but we have to be realistic that not enough people in this country want to be carers or nurses or doctors or not enough are trained in the UK and there have been shortages for over 30 years now. In some ways we are bringing in younger people to look after our old. People like the EDL don't seem to accept this at all. My local hospital went to India to recruit 200 staff, multiply that by 500 hospitals nationally and thats 1 million health workers needed.
Ref housing - there is virtually no social housing getting built that is nothing to do with immigration, in fact immigrants with building skills could be useful. Without the Irish in the 1960s the motorways would have struggled to get built here. The problem in the UK is more lack of affordable housing, then housing full stop. We have also have lots of unoccuped housing, private houses turned into holiday lets, land with planning permission that is not built on. 205,000 new private houses are also built every year. Housebuilder near me are giving new buyers £7,000 if they buy a new house. The problem is that they are around £350k to buy. I've noticed no one does any overtime on the building site - its around 8.30 to 4pm Monday to Friday which suggests the housebuilders are not over keen to build more at present.
I do think alot more should be done to balance the UK economy, so there are more jobs where people are looking for work. Also some employers are looking for the perfect imported worker and rejecting some UK applicants who are not perfect in their eyes. The same for training, less effective training is being done in the UK, leaving the work force less skilled. People complain a lack of vocational skills, but the old tech colleges have been run down with cut back after cut back, look at Redcar Tech College, which is just hanging in there with lecturers earning less than the average national wage. The Far Right don't demand better vocational training for working class young people and they should be.
I do think there has to be some controlled immigration. It does take time to socially integrate and that is from both sides. Immigration will also by its nature increase the supply of labour and thus put downward pressure on wages and salaries, but we have to be realistic that not enough people in this country want to be carers or nurses or doctors or not enough are trained in the UK and there have been shortages for over 30 years now. In some ways we are bringing in younger people to look after our old. People like the EDL don't seem to accept this at all. My local hospital went to India to recruit 200 staff, multiply that by 500 hospitals nationally and thats 1 million health workers needed.
Ref housing - there is virtually no social housing getting built that is nothing to do with immigration, in fact immigrants with building skills could be useful. Without the Irish in the 1960s the motorways would have struggled to get built here. The problem in the UK is more lack of affordable housing, then housing full stop. We have also have lots of unoccuped housing, private houses turned into holiday lets, land with planning permission that is not built on. 205,000 new private houses are also built every year. Housebuilder near me are giving new buyers £7,000 if they buy a new house. The problem is that they are around £350k to buy. I've noticed no one does any overtime on the building site - its around 8.30 to 4pm Monday to Friday which suggests the housebuilders are not over keen to build more at present.
I do think alot more should be done to balance the UK economy, so there are more jobs where people are looking for work. Also some employers are looking for the perfect imported worker and rejecting some UK applicants who are not perfect in their eyes. The same for training, less effective training is being done in the UK, leaving the work force less skilled. People complain a lack of vocational skills, but the old tech colleges have been run down with cut back after cut back, look at Redcar Tech College, which is just hanging in there with lecturers earning less than the average national wage. The Far Right don't demand better vocational training for working class young people and they should be.
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The fact is that immigration doesn't affect everyone evenly so different people have different opinions on it. Whether it is good or bad might be seen through several different lenses/perspectives.
Culturally immigration is great. Different people bring different ideas, views, cuisines etc and things to offer us culturally.
Economically immigration is great on a macro level. More people, especially working age adults, means more money overall. However it means more infrastructure is required, more public service capacity, more housing, more schools, more GPs etc. If the only thing you care about is the biggest number at the top which we use as a measure aka "The economy" then immigration is great.
If you are a big business and you need to keep costs down then a bigger supply of labour competing for jobs means you can pay people less. More profits for shareholders, cheaper prices which the consumers like.
If you are a worker, with no/little qualifications and every additional person into the country is competing with you for one of the finite jobs available then you might be less happy. If you are a skilled worker in a trade and on a good wage but immigration allows additional people to compete with you for jobs then wages will reduce.
I think it's offensive to say that people are only anti-immigration because they are racist. It is far more likely that the people that are anti-immigration are those at the lower end of the socio-economic scale and it is because they are the people that are most likely to be competing with additional people for jobs, for housing, for use of public services etc. Councils will house people through social housing like refugees, former prisoners, alcoholics, people with mental health or drug problems etc in low cost areas (and it makes sense to, because they are cheap) but it definitely devalues houses in those areas so the people that have managed to buy a house see their house values reduce.
It's very easy for people in a situation like me to be very pro-immigration. Along with all the cultural benefits I will never have social housing on my street, I don't have to compete with extra people for jobs, I will benefit from the economy doing well, more demand for housing means my house will rise in value, I can buy things that aren't necessities for a cheaper price thanks to businesses paying low wages, I could hire a cleaner for cheap rates etc.
In the past Labour, and I think it's evidenced by Corbyn's historic anti-EU position, have been against mass/uncontrolled immigration because of the negative effects it has on the people at the bottom. These days, and especially due to the Brexit argument, they have entrenched themselves on the wrong side (for their historic base) which is why parties like UKIP, and then the Tories, have been able to pick up votes/seats in traditionally staunch Labour strongholds. The Tories are massively pro-immigration because businesses are massively pro-immigration so it doesn't make sense for Labour to be the ones defending immigration at all costs. The Tories might have got Brexit done so uncontrolled immigration from the EU is no longer a thing but they aren't controlling immigration, numbers are rising every year, and it's because they don't want to.
Labour have gone down the route of prioritising the social/cultural aspects of living in the UK and have ignored the people that they used to put first, especially economically, and this goes back to the Blair days, it's not just a recent thing. It was about 10 years ago Thornberry was sacked from tweeting about someone with an England flag up. They turned their back on the working class a long time ago and if they want those voters back they need to prioritise them again.
No doubt there are plenty of racists about and they are easily led/misled by media like the Daily Mail but there is also the lived experience of always having to fight for scraps and seeing the number of people in the fight getting bigger as the scraps get smaller, all the while being told that this is better for everyone.
Brian Marwood
Well-known member
If the country is lacking the required investment it's due to the funds being squandered by this government and also squirreled away with corruption by the same. If they had spent wisely (PPE and Covid App) and wasn't rife with corruption (Michelle Mone) there would be ample funds for the required infrastructure.
Point the finger at the guilty parties and not the immigrants.
I have no idea of the breakdown but to the point remains irrelevant of the breakdown of type of immigrant. This country can't cope with that annual rise in population. We don't have the houses, the healthcare, the transport systems, the schools or even the space. It needs to be controlled.
If the way we control it is to reduce the amount of overseas students, then the student fee system will need to be overhauled.
I don't like the idea of reducing the amount of asylum seekers that we accept, but maybe there needs to be a trade off that other types of immigrants are reduced over the succeeding years to counterbalance this.
I did in my first post, see below.
But that is done now and we need to move forward, I'm not pointing the finger at the immigrants and I think it is a bit unfair to throw that at me
festa5
Well-known member
I agree a lot of people think like that, but they're being lied to.
Immigrants are net contributors to the economy. If there isn't enough access to public services then that's because the government choose not to invest the additional tax revenue in them. Convenient scapegoat though.
The biggest users of the NHS by some distance are pensioners. The lowest contributors to the funding of it via taxes are..... pensioners.
Least likely to use it - immigrants (generally younger and healthier).
In general terms the demographic most likely to have issue with immigrants - pensioners.
No doubt partly because they believe they're a drain on the NHS
