Warnock out brigade - Sense of entitlement?

[Jr. SkinnyLegs]

I understand where the OP and I'm willing to continue to give Warnock time. However, I think the signs from the past few games are that whatever his plan its not being executed on the field by the players. If that continues for the next few games, it is a bit of a concern for Warnock that the players have lost belief and confidence in his management style and tactical plan for matches.

He's made odd decisions as well. No Ikpeazu for a while and I understand he was ill for 1 game but Ikpeazu with Crooks in behind/alongside was causing teams issues and we have gone away from what was working going forward. It would have been a perfect opportunity to play him against Reading who played with 1 or 0 recognized CB's.

I do feel sympathetic for Warnock with the midfield situation (if he wasn't part of the recruitment). Our lack of championship experience in midfield is causing us a multitude of issues. We are not winning any midfield battles and so we can't gain any control over the game defensively or offensively.

I think this may be an eye opening experience for people who were happy to see the back of Morsy and Saville.

 

[dooderooni]

It's not about us, it's about Gibson and his ambition for the club. If he's happy to keep putting money in while we fail on the pitch then he'll keep Warnock.
Gibson clearly believes some clubs aren't being fair financially so it's even more imperative that we perform in the pitch and we look miles away from competing, let alone troubling the play off picture. We've been inconsistent for a while so it's not just a blip.

 

[Alzi]

Couple of wins this week and he’ll be the messiah again (till we lose next)

It’s too early to write the season off, if fans on here had their way we’d be going through mangers like Forest.

 

[JM14]

I owe you an apology. Was harsh on you earlier in the season about Warnock but I’m with you now. It’s not good enough at all this. Needs to go

Certainly no need to apologise, all opinions at the end of the day. I was completely against him staying beyond the summer as you know, but could sort of understand the reasoning behind it, but there’s no justification now for this to carry on any longer. We’ve had a relatively easy start to the season yet don’t even look like improving.

The worst thing for me is he now just seems happy for our biggest signing in years not to play judging by his earlier comments which really should be the final straw for Gibson, the likes of Payero were brought in to develop in the squad and hopefully sell on for a big profit further down the line, how can that happen if the manager just refuses to play them? As it stands the club has just wasted their money.

I’m almost happy to write the season off already if we can get a new manager in ASAP who can work with and get the best from this group, then go again next season. Just don’t loose this season then start another rebuild in the summer

 

[WoodallServices]

Yes, has anyone got Steve Agnew's number?

I'm sick of the short termism, I didn't want Warnock here but I was told that he was the man to get us to the PL. Look at all the promotions they said. He came and he stopped the rot under Woody. Fair enough. Last season playing to empty stadia we were awful after the New Year. But it was a strange season and there had hardly been a break from the previous season and all the other shizzle. I never liked the constant argy bargy with referees. "He says it like he see it" I was told.

The same people now want his head because we are failing to gel as a team...

He isn't the Messiah (he never was) but it would be utter stupidity to get rid of him now. Even if we appointed Pep Guardiola assisted by Sir Alex Ferguson and the ghost of Brian Clough backed by the spending power of the nation of Saudi Arabia we are never going to catch WBA, B'muff or Fulham. That's the truth, don't throw away next season by trying to salvage something from this one. Of course if we are still hanging round the rrse end of the division by Chrimbo then I'll be singing with the rest of you.

Until then, hold your fire.

I expect better from you Muttley! “Short termism”? You know full well there’s an awful lot of the regulars on here and I would imagine a few of the newer posters who’ve been around the block once or twice and seen the great times but an awful lot of sh1te where Boro are concerned so to accuse them of ”short termism“ is a bit daft.
To then suggest it was the lack of crowds and the pandemic to blame rather than NW’s outdated football philosophy just compounded that.
However your second paragraph just proved the reason why people are saying Warnock should go. If as you say we would have no chance of catching WBA, B’muff or Fulham only 9, yes NINE games into the season then at this rate by Christmas we’ll need a periscope to look up at the top six! I think most Boro fans calling for NW to go are pragmatic enough to know that if he’s still here at Christmas then he might as well stay till the end of the season. The more damaging thinking for the club is the ‘long termism’ thinking that believes we can choose to go up when we’ve completed our “transition” and players are “bedded in”! I bet Steve Gibson doesn’t think like that. If we’re not going to catch the three teams mentioned then what’s it going to be like next season when there’s going to be another three teams coming down the best part of two hundred million quid richer than Boro? Every year we gradually slip down the pecking order So we’ve got to give ourselves at least half a chance if we can.
It’s now or we write the season off and play spot the crowd on Riverside Live!

 

[jonny_greenings_sock]

Yes, has anyone got Steve Agnew's number?

I'm sick of the short termism, I didn't want Warnock here but I was told that he was the man to get us to the PL. Look at all the promotions they said. He came and he stopped the rot under Woody. Fair enough. Last season playing to empty stadia we were awful after the New Year. But it was a strange season and there had hardly been a break from the previous season and all the other shizzle. I never liked the constant argy bargy with referees. "He says it like he see it" I was told.

The same people now want his head because we are failing to gel as a team...

He isn't the Messiah (he never was) but it would be utter stupidity to get rid of him now. Even if we appointed Pep Guardiola assisted by Sir Alex Ferguson and the ghost of Brian Clough backed by the spending power of the nation of Saudi Arabia we are never going to catch WBA, B'muff or Fulham. That's the truth, don't throw away next season by trying to salvage something from this one. Of course if we are still hanging round the rrse end of the division by Chrimbo then I'll be singing with the rest of you.

Until then, hold your fire.

A lot of fair points in here but normally the argument against short termism is that it’s mental to let a manager sign a full squad then fire him, leaving a new manager with players he doesn’t want.

Warnock doesn’t seem to want the squad we’ve got!

So in this case, I’d probably go, ah well, find a manager who wants to work with those players.

 

[Redwurzel]

Certainly no need to apologise, all opinions at the end of the day. I was completely against him staying beyond the summer as you know, but could sort of understand the reasoning behind it, but there’s no justification now for this to carry on any longer. We’ve had a relatively easy start to the season yet don’t even look like improving.

The worst thing for me is he now just seems happy for our biggest signing in years not to play judging by his earlier comments which really should be the final straw for Gibson, the likes of Payero were brought in to develop in the squad and hopefully sell on for a big profit further down the line, how can that happen if the manager just refuses to play them? As it stands the club has just wasted their money.

I’m almost happy to write the season off already if we can get a new manager in ASAP who can work with and get the best from this group, then go again next season. Just don’t loose this season then start another rebuild in the summer

I am a bit sad and followed a lot of the Reading game on Betfair analysis. It shows where the ball is on the pitch and which player has it, their passes and what successful challenges and blocks made. During the first half Payero's name hardly came up, I honestly did think he was on the pitch. He has to get more involved. My feeling at present is bring him as sub. I still think it needs to develop and we can't afford defeat after defeat in the short run. I remember Slaven took 5 to 6 months to settle in.

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

I could careless about his last hurrah

And we ARE heading for the drop zone or do think losing to Blackpool and reading is good form

YAWNS loudly

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

I am a bit sad and followed a lot of the Reading game on Betfair analysis. It shows where the ball is on the pitch and which player has it, their passes and what successful challenges and blocks made. During the first half Payero's name hardly came up, I honestly did think he was on the pitch. He has to get more involved. My feeling at present is bring him as sub. I still think it needs to develop and we can't afford defeat after defeat in the short run. I remember Slaven took 5 to 6 months to settle in.

The reality is payero just isn’t working for whatever reason but mainly his ability or mentality to figure it out but he looks like a league 2 player AT BEST and I’m being kind

another massive mistake by Gibson

 

[Ripley11]

The reality is payero just isn’t working for whatever reason but mainly his ability or mentality to figure it out but he looks like a league 2 player AT BEST and I’m being kind

another massive mistake by Gibson

He’s started one league match! Is Payero really the problem?! Were we playing brilliantly in the other 8 matches where he didn’t start?

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

He’s started one league match! Is Payero really the problem?! Were we playing brilliantly in the other 8 matches where he didn’t start?

So, your implying, the problem is the manager, when, although siliki hasn’t been a revelation since arriving but when he gets on the ball you can see a player there….is that because of the manager too. ? Payero looks utter dog shyte and you know it
It hurts to say it but it’s a fact

 

[Ravs]

The reality is payero just isn’t working for whatever reason but mainly his ability or mentality to figure it out but he looks like a league 2 player AT BEST and I’m being kind

another massive mistake by Gibson

I have just rewatched the match in its entirety, this time focusing primarily on Payero‘s play and his contribution.

Conclusion … he looked unfit, wasn’t quick, failed to move into space to make things happen and was so-so defensively. Sadly, not the force for the Championship I was hoping for.

 

[Diego]

Certainly no need to apologise, all opinions at the end of the day. I was completely against him staying beyond the summer as you know, but could sort of understand the reasoning behind it, but there’s no justification now for this to carry on any longer. We’ve had a relatively easy start to the season yet don’t even look like improving.

The worst thing for me is he now just seems happy for our biggest signing in years not to play judging by his earlier comments which really should be the final straw for Gibson, the likes of Payero were brought in to develop in the squad and hopefully sell on for a big profit further down the line, how can that happen if the manager just refuses to play them? As it stands the club has just wasted their money.

I’m almost happy to write the season off already if we can get a new manager in ASAP who can work with and get the best from this group, then go again next season. Just don’t loose this season then start another rebuild in the summer

I agree. That article basically admitting he won’t play the players signed from abroad for a while is a strange one. I hope he hasn’t included Sporar in that. His movement is quality. And Payero needs games, hopefully he’s out soon and a manager with more up to date ideas can get the best out of these lads. I would move heaven and earth for Frank Lampard.

 

[changingman]

I think the difference this time is that theres a natural end to the current regime, generally regarded as the end of the season.

I'm not sure it would be quite as vociferous if this was a project with the manager on a four year contract for instance.

 

[Uwefuchs]

Do the fans who are saying Warnock should be sacked now potentially have a similar mentality to the twerps who are probably currently in queues, with jerry cans at the ready??

No, completely stupid comparison.

 

[Ripley11]

So, your implying, the problem is the manager, when, although siliki hasn’t been a revelation since arriving but when he gets on the ball you can see a player there….is that because of the manager too. ? Payero looks utter dog shyte and you know it
It hurts to say it but it’s a fact

I don’t know - I’ve only seen him play once. Not willing to write a player off that quickly.

 

[Uwefuchs]

I think the difference this time is that theres a natural end to the current regime, generally regarded as the end of the season.

I'm not sure it would be quite as vociferous if this was a project with the manager on a four year contract for instance.

Good point, at the moment it just feels like Warnock is keeping the seat warm for his successor at the moment. It doesn't feel like he is building anything, the football is poor to watch and we're struggling to get results.

He doesn't seem fully happy in the current set up and the excuses and blame game seems to be starting now as well, if this was Warnock's first season then it would be stupid to get rid of him but it feels like we're just playing the season out as a club until the new man comes in.

The negativity from fans comes from watching poor football since January, this isn't a knee jerk thing.

The way I see it with fans they'll give a manager time if one of the below apply).

1. He's getting results (regardless of performance), or
2. The football is great to watch (even if the results aren't always there), or
3. You can see a plan and feel like something is being built.

Our fans have been patient with managers in the past, the likes of Karanka and McClaren weren't getting instant results or providing entertaining football but you could see something being built.

The problem now is we're not really getting results, the football is awful and although some things seem to be changing behind the scenes you get the feeling that Warnock isn't really buying into it.

I think for a lot of fans you feel that unless we are competing for a playoff spot is there much point in Warnock being here?

I'm not saying sack him now, I hope the club are taking the time to find the right replacement and if that takes until next year then so be it, but if Warnock wants to be given time the bare minimum for him is to start winning games.

 

[DCI_Gene_Hunt]

Of course you are! You’re conveniently disregarding our form since January! Since then and the start of the new season has one common denominator- Warnock. Proving that despite many changes the results are not improving. That is a damning indictment of both the results and the only consistency shown is we are incapable of winning many matches.

As I said I am not airbrushing anything out.

It's a totally different squad and we are 9 games in. He has to be given a chance with the new squad.

What kind of manager do you think we are going to attract when someone is sacked 9 or 10 games into the new season. People talking about Frank Lampard, absolutely no chance! If you had your way and he was sacked his week who would you think we'd end up with?

If things don't improve then yes we look at a change but look at Arsenal. Bottom of the league and going nowhere fast and fans calling for Arteta to be sacked a few weeks ago, now they are 10th, things can change quickly.

 

[Nosmo-King]

Any comparison with any other club is meaningless. Name me one other club operating with a manager who is retiring at the end of the season, I think you’ll struggle.

Once more, I reiterate, his results since January have been poor- all we are seeing is this continuing.

I am somewhat amazed he has any defenders left. Poor football, poor results, poor individual performances, poor fitness, poor will to win, poorly organised, is this what floats your boat.?

If so then I don’t feel you have the clubs interest at heart. Things not working so you want to continue? Astounding. Warnock is not as big or as important as the club- that’s the bottom line.

 

[Cuthbert]

I wonder if age eventually becomes a problem for football managers? Footballers in their 20s will mostly think a bloke in his 70s is ancient. Might have an impact in terms of buying in to ideas?

[That said, Roy Hodgson did OK at Palace, so probably nothing in it.... I just wondered].