Vaccine Passports

red_harrington said:
Yes and which of those were recalled and never used again because they were dangerous?

Neither of them.
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Which misses the point. Being declared safe doesn't mean they are actually safe. It means they have passed some very rigorous testing. The swine flu vaccination above is one example.

If you don't understand the point it are just arguing to justify your position then it's not a debate.

It had happened albeit infrequently vaccinations have been released that later were recalled for health reasons.

That it's going to make people reluctant to get a vaccination if their personal risk is very low from the disease being vaccinated against.

The individuals have no group responsability to get vaccinated. That viewpoint is ridiculous. As I stated above I would, probably, not get my 10 year old vaccinated if vaccinating ages are dropped to 10 and above.

The reason I wouldn't is because my first responsability is to my daughter not society in general.
 
tonymcandrewshattrick said:
I trust my own judgement RH. Whatever you do with your life is yours.

You're happy that a Moderna study is being used as validation by a scientist to sell their drugs to vaccinate children between the ages of 12-16

What chance do we have with people like you?
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Who should fund it? They are trying to prove the quality of their product. The study will still have to pass peer review.


imagine Bill Gates funding it, you’d spontaneously combust.
 
I think we can all agree that whilst there are the likes of @tonymcandrewshattrick in this country vaccine passports should be the way to go? Someone who will argue at great length, and with increasingly desperate attempts, that he won't so smoothing designed to protect the health of himself and others.

He's the real reason vaccine passports are being considered. People like that need protecting from themselves. He's the reason we need laws telling us to wear seat belts, we need to do health and safety training at work, the reason drugs are illegal. We need to protect some people from their own actions.
 
SmallTown said:
I think we can all agree that whilst there are the likes of @tonymcandrewshattrick in this country vaccine passports should be the way to go? Someone who will argue at great length, and with increasingly desperate attempts, that he won't so smoothing designed to protect the health of himself and others.

He's the real reason vaccine passports are being considered. People like that need protecting from themselves. He's the reason we need laws telling us to wear seat belts, we need to do health and safety training at work, the reason drugs are illegal. We need to protect some people from their own actions.
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classic deflection tactic ST - turn the narrative around

and for the record I fully support everybody to get the vaccine.
 
SmallTown said:
I'm sure you do. That's why yiu are arguing so hard against it? I mean...
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i've stated from the very beginning if you want to have the vaccine great. I fully support it.

If you don't for whatever reason then I support that.

The coercion by yourself and others to have it is too much, which is why i originally expressed my opinion.
 
tonymcandrewshattrick said:
i've stated from the very beginning if you want to have the vaccine great. I fully support it.

If you don't for whatever reason then I support that.

The coercion by yourself and others to have it is too much, which is why i originally expressed my opinion.
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And that's exactly why I expressed to opinion. I've repeated the facts that the vaccine make society safer. Hence my last post stating we NEED vaccine passports because of people like you. We need to have some rules in place to ensure people aren't endangering themselves and others. It's sad but that's where we are. You are honestly the best advert for vaccine paspsorts
 
tonymcandrewshattrick said:
i've stated from the very beginning if you want to have the vaccine great. I fully support it.

If you don't for whatever reason then I support that.
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Even if the ‘for whatever reason’ is that they’ve swallowed a load of deliberate lies and misinformation from anti-vax propaganda pushed by people and organisations who actually know (and do not care) what they are saying is incorrect and will lead to some poor folk dying?
You support it if those poor people are needlessly taking a completely unnecessary risk based on nothing other than lies by nefarious players for various malicious reasons?
 
FabioPorkpie said:
Even if the ‘for whatever reason’ is that they’ve swallowed a load of deliberate lies and misinformation from anti-vax propaganda pushed by people and organisations who actually know (and do not care) what they are saying is incorrect and will lead to some poor folk dying?
You support it if those poor people are needlessly taking a completely unnecessary risk based on nothing other than lies by nefarious players for various malicious reasons?
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I think what he is saying is he supports freedom of choice, apologies Tony if that's not correct.

Freedom of choice without being called a killer. Freedom to choose how people live their lives. Freedom to make a decision based on what is best for them and do that without the ridiculous scorn from people.

It's not difficult to understand. And to get back to the original point, to do so without being excluded from society.
 
Freedom of choice is being able to walk down the street in just your pants making funny faces and shouting 'Wibble wibble' at passers by, without getting arrested.

You're free to do so, but you're still a d*ck.
 
red_harrington said:
Freedom of choice is being able to walk down the street in just your pants making funny faces and shouting 'Wibble wibble' at passers by, without getting arrested.

You're free to do so, but you're still a d*ck.
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If that is really the level of your debate then I am not really interested.
 
Laughing said:
I think what he is saying is he supports freedom of choice, apologies Tony if that's not correct.

Freedom of choice without being called a killer. Freedom to choose how people live their lives. Freedom to make a decision based on what is best for them and do that without the ridiculous scorn from people.

It's not difficult to understand. And to get back to the original point, to do so without being excluded from society.
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The freedom of choice argument is a bizarre one. What if we were allowed to drive 70mph past a school? I demand my freedom of choice to do that. So what if I risk the lives of children? I should be free to choose
 
Laughing said:
I think what he is saying is he supports freedom of choice, apologies Tony if that's not correct.

Freedom of choice without being called a killer. Freedom to choose how people live their lives. Freedom to make a decision based on what is best for them and do that without the ridiculous scorn from people.

It's not difficult to understand. And to get back to the original point, to do so without being excluded from society.
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I believe in freedom of choice.
But I also believe that choice should come from an informed position and unfortunately anti-vaxxers such as Tony here, do not come from that position, no matter what they think. They’ve been well and truly played.

I’ve not read all of the antivax stuff on here (because frankly, I can’t get my head around the fact that people are still taken in by it) but every piece of antivax argument that I have seen here and elsewhere has been picked to bits and demolished scientifically, by credible bodies or individuals, with evidence, data and scientific explanation, so anybody still falling for it is simply ignoring the truth. The answers are all there but those who’ve fallen down the antivax rabbit hole don’t want to see them.

I also think it’s naive to think these guys are just here fighting to maintain
liberties and a freedom of choice. Have you not seen all the absolutely laughable nonsense they’ve posted over this forum?
It’s dangerous bull****.

Maybe the doctors should have freedom of choice to decide who gets the one available icu bed and life saving treatment? The young cancer patient recovering from life saving surgery and in need of intensive care to get better, or the antivax mug who thought covid was just a hoax.
My guess is first come first served.
That must be a horrific position to be in.
There are consequences to this anti vax wickedness that can impact anyone and everyone .

Anyway, Saturday night innit. Enjoy your evening, 🍻 cheers
 
FabioPorkpie said:
I believe in freedom of choice.
But I also believe that choice should come from an informed position and unfortunately anti-vaxxers such as Tony here, do not come from that position, no matter what they think. They’ve been well and truly played.

I’ve not read all of the antivax stuff on here (because frankly, I can’t get my head around the fact that people are still taken in by it) but every piece of antivax argument that I have seen here and elsewhere has been picked to bits and demolished scientifically, by credible bodies or individuals, with evidence, data and scientific explanation, so anybody still falling for it is simply ignoring the truth. The answers are all there but those who’ve fallen down the antivax rabbit hole don’t want to see them.

I also think it’s naive to think these guys are just here fighting to maintain
liberties and a freedom of choice. Have you not seen all the absolutely laughable nonsense they’ve posted over this forum?
It’s dangerous bull****.

Maybe the doctors should have freedom of choice to decide who gets the one available icu bed and life saving treatment? The young cancer patient recovering from life saving surgery and in need of intensive care to get better, or the antivax mug who thought covid was just a hoax.
My guess is first come first served.
That must be a horrific position to be in.
There are consequences to this anti vax wickedness that can impact anyone and everyone .

Anyway, Saturday night innit. Enjoy your evening, 🍻 cheers
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I notice you didn't respond to my post about the Israeli report.

It suggests that if your not vulnerable it's better for everyone to catch and recover. It certainly calls into question vaccinating kids.

In any event i have no problem with people presenting facts, such as they are. Its the level of vitriol. And using the science argument when it is always, with a relatively new virus and treatment, subject to change. Science is presented as fact to win an argument, that's not debate.
 
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