Chappy112
Well-known member
That's what they do on here, it's absolutes, never or forever, one extreme or the other. They don't work in percentages.
Vaccine Passports
- Thread starter Norman_Conquest
- Start date
DanJC
Active member
Roman Kemp tested positive today despite having his two injections. He then pulled out from training with the rest of the Soccer Aid participants. If Vaccine Passports were in place now he would be unknowingly spreading it to the rest of the participants. They clearly thought it was enough of a risk of transmission or they wouldn't have sent him home. It just makes a mockery of it all.
I find it interesting that fmttmboro has always been a dominant force of support for Labour yet are ironically backing the drunk on power Conservative regime, who are now according to reports set to vote again to extend the Coronavirus Act until March 2022 and the implementation of Vaccine Passports for mass events. As we approach the winter months and as sure as night follows day we will enter another lockdown and the calamitous effects it can bring to society. Businesses closing down/people losing their livelihoods, a record high waiting list for treatment in the NHS, the damage to peoples mental wellbeing and those who decided they could not cope with it anymore. It's a catastrophic Government one-size-fits-all policy that caused this, not the Virus and its especially ludicrous now considering how everyone who wants protection now has it. So in the future when the FMTTM Clique have the gall to start giving the Conservatives a good shoeing when these problems come home to roost I'll remind those same posters that they got into bed with their enemy, so they can own their part in all this.
Getting back on topic of Vaccine Passports. It's reported today by Sky News that there are calls for the "No Jab, No Job" policy to be withdrawn for those working in the care home industry. "In an sector with vacancies already over 110,000" and "DHSC's own risk assessment estimation that mandatory vaccination could result in up to 70,000 care workers leaving their roles in industry" Its disastrous for the elderly and vulnerable who rely on those members of staff. The same patients who will already have their own protection from the vaccine. Its complete insanity.
As a Key Worker myself who continued to have to go to work as normal and mix with colleagues from March 2020 onwards to the present day, I was safe and expendable enough to put myself at risk to keep the world turning for everyone else. Suddenly I'm not safe enough to mix with those who have supposed protection from the injection. I just couldn't look the future generations in the eyes and tell them I supported this hysteria that led to them needing an injection every six months like cattle, vaccine passports eventually the size of bingo cards to go to the supermarket for food [See Cyprus] and the ability to dance inside a venue but god forbid only the coerced vaccinated can bust out the shapes [See Cyprus Again]. I've had COVID in July and none of these measures from here on out are justified and never will be, now that everyone who wants protection now has it.
Everyone should be given free choice to decide if they want the injection or not without repercussions. None of this "I like to be seen to do this or that", "I'm doing my bit" or "It's not about you its others" pitiful emotional/guilt trip blackmail rhetoric. Tolerant and Accepting FMTTMBoro? Dont make me laugh, when it suits perhaps. This place is just an Echo Chamber vastly dominated by those with a moral superiority complex who are petrified they wont be seen to 'be doing the right thing' or toeing the narrative line.
I find it interesting that fmttmboro has always been a dominant force of support for Labour yet are ironically backing the drunk on power Conservative regime, who are now according to reports set to vote again to extend the Coronavirus Act until March 2022 and the implementation of Vaccine Passports for mass events. As we approach the winter months and as sure as night follows day we will enter another lockdown and the calamitous effects it can bring to society. Businesses closing down/people losing their livelihoods, a record high waiting list for treatment in the NHS, the damage to peoples mental wellbeing and those who decided they could not cope with it anymore. It's a catastrophic Government one-size-fits-all policy that caused this, not the Virus and its especially ludicrous now considering how everyone who wants protection now has it. So in the future when the FMTTM Clique have the gall to start giving the Conservatives a good shoeing when these problems come home to roost I'll remind those same posters that they got into bed with their enemy, so they can own their part in all this.
Getting back on topic of Vaccine Passports. It's reported today by Sky News that there are calls for the "No Jab, No Job" policy to be withdrawn for those working in the care home industry. "In an sector with vacancies already over 110,000" and "DHSC's own risk assessment estimation that mandatory vaccination could result in up to 70,000 care workers leaving their roles in industry" Its disastrous for the elderly and vulnerable who rely on those members of staff. The same patients who will already have their own protection from the vaccine. Its complete insanity.
As a Key Worker myself who continued to have to go to work as normal and mix with colleagues from March 2020 onwards to the present day, I was safe and expendable enough to put myself at risk to keep the world turning for everyone else. Suddenly I'm not safe enough to mix with those who have supposed protection from the injection. I just couldn't look the future generations in the eyes and tell them I supported this hysteria that led to them needing an injection every six months like cattle, vaccine passports eventually the size of bingo cards to go to the supermarket for food [See Cyprus] and the ability to dance inside a venue but god forbid only the coerced vaccinated can bust out the shapes [See Cyprus Again]. I've had COVID in July and none of these measures from here on out are justified and never will be, now that everyone who wants protection now has it.
Everyone should be given free choice to decide if they want the injection or not without repercussions. None of this "I like to be seen to do this or that", "I'm doing my bit" or "It's not about you its others" pitiful emotional/guilt trip blackmail rhetoric. Tolerant and Accepting FMTTMBoro? Dont make me laugh, when it suits perhaps. This place is just an Echo Chamber vastly dominated by those with a moral superiority complex who are petrified they wont be seen to 'be doing the right thing' or toeing the narrative line.
mymatelookslikephilstamp
Active member
magic
Well-known member
Absolutely this
Lockdowns work is not even up for debate apparently?? Really?? Why can’t anyone explain how Sweden which did the opposite of all the western countries came out of this with less deaths and hospitalisations, an economy that isn’t ruined, their kids didn’t miss one day at school and they’re not going through a mental health crisis. You would think we would look at this and try to emulate them rather than doubling down on a mistake and going full on police state Australia.
The same people who say the UK is not comparable with Sweden were quite happy to compare us to India when they were having a surge in cases
SmallTown
Well-known member
No. Why do the anti vaxxers go to extremes. What is it about them that they hear something and think it's an absolute statement?
Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants
Well-known member
Compare Sweden with Norway.Absolutely this
Lockdowns work is not even up for debate apparently?? Really?? Why can’t anyone explain how Sweden which did the opposite of all the western countries came out of this with less deaths and hospitalisations, an economy that isn’t ruined, their kids didn’t miss one day at school and they’re not going through a mental health crisis. You would think we would look at this and try to emulate them rather than doubling down on a mistake and going full on police state Australia.
The same people who say the UK is not comparable with Sweden were quite happy to compare us to India when they were having a surge in cases
Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants
Well-known member
Ok, compare Sweden with UK. Its utterly stupid to do such a thing.
bear66
Well-known member
There were mandatory requirements for masks in Norway. They are still mandatory in some public transport situations.
magic
Well-known member
Fair enough you can’t explain why Sweden has superior figures to us and
Health Minister Bent Hoie told reporters at a news conference in Oslo that while it will not be mandatory, the ministry recommends face masks as an extra precaution when it is difficult to maintain a “social distance” of one meter or more on public transportation.
Isn’t the internet great
Norwegian health officials on Friday recommended people wear face masks while using public transportation in and around the capital, Oslo, amid a rise in COVID-19 cases, its first recommendation for face coverings since the pandemic began.
Health Minister Bent Hoie told reporters at a news conference in Oslo that while it will not be mandatory, the ministry recommends face masks as an extra precaution when it is difficult to maintain a “social distance” of one meter or more on public transportation.
Isn’t the internet great
bear66
Well-known member
Situations where masks are mandatory and situations where they are recommended in Norway.Fair enough you can’t explain why Sweden has superior figures to us and
Norwegian health officials on Friday recommended people wear face masks while using public transportation in and around the capital, Oslo, amid a rise in COVID-19 cases, its first recommendation for face coverings since the pandemic began.
Health Minister Bent Hoie told reporters at a news conference in Oslo that while it will not be mandatory, the ministry recommends face masks as an extra precaution when it is difficult to maintain a “social distance” of one meter or more on public transportation.
Isn’t the internet great
Link
mymatelookslikephilstamp
Active member
I'm not anti vaxx - I'm pro choice. Let people decide what they do/don't inject in their body without prejudice (or condemnation from the FMTTM woke brigade).
magic
Well-known member
You’d think someone would have been good enough to tell the health minister
bear66
Well-known member
He was told. Your quote from the Norwegian health minister was 14 August 2020.
dooderooni
Well-known member
I do wish people would stop trying to compare countries responses without the caveats of things like population density, obesity levels etc as it only serves to try and prove a point and not add to any form of constructive discussion.
I myself am classed as a key worker, have worked throughout the pandemic, am double jabbed and still wear a mask. That doesn't make me any more virtuous than anyone else, but my personal circumstances and those of my family have led me to make my choices.
As I said many posts ago on this thread, vaccines, testing, masks and social distancing are how we'll get a handle on the endemic nature of this virus, but the current infection levels of over 200,000 new cases a week don't indicate to me that we are doing enough to drive case numbers down to a level where we can get ahead of the infection path.
You can choose not to be vaccinated, but you have to accept the science that you will be more likely to pass the virus on and also accept that you may be asymptomatic and be doing so unwittingly. In that case, masking, social distancing and good hygiene will help prevent initial infection and the chances of passing it on. While that might be hard to prove statistically I can tell you from my personal experience of working in a very, very busy environment and not ever catching Covid that it definitely helps.
I'm all for reasoned choice, but the case levels that are reported show that some people are not taking enough care to do what they can to drive down the numbers.
As I also said elsewhere, the labelling of 'Freedom Day' was a massive mistake and I'm sure it has driven many to think that we can get back to normal and it is that change in attitude that has led to the numbers we are recording every day. If we had a track and trace system capable of monitoring these numbers then I'm also sure we'd be seeing much higher figures given the asymptomatic nature of the virus.
As for pitching in with the government, that is just laughable because we are dealing with a pandemic and not a political ideology and it is perfectly acceptable to do what you think helps society and be vocal against government policy.
I myself am classed as a key worker, have worked throughout the pandemic, am double jabbed and still wear a mask. That doesn't make me any more virtuous than anyone else, but my personal circumstances and those of my family have led me to make my choices.
As I said many posts ago on this thread, vaccines, testing, masks and social distancing are how we'll get a handle on the endemic nature of this virus, but the current infection levels of over 200,000 new cases a week don't indicate to me that we are doing enough to drive case numbers down to a level where we can get ahead of the infection path.
You can choose not to be vaccinated, but you have to accept the science that you will be more likely to pass the virus on and also accept that you may be asymptomatic and be doing so unwittingly. In that case, masking, social distancing and good hygiene will help prevent initial infection and the chances of passing it on. While that might be hard to prove statistically I can tell you from my personal experience of working in a very, very busy environment and not ever catching Covid that it definitely helps.
I'm all for reasoned choice, but the case levels that are reported show that some people are not taking enough care to do what they can to drive down the numbers.
As I also said elsewhere, the labelling of 'Freedom Day' was a massive mistake and I'm sure it has driven many to think that we can get back to normal and it is that change in attitude that has led to the numbers we are recording every day. If we had a track and trace system capable of monitoring these numbers then I'm also sure we'd be seeing much higher figures given the asymptomatic nature of the virus.
As for pitching in with the government, that is just laughable because we are dealing with a pandemic and not a political ideology and it is perfectly acceptable to do what you think helps society and be vocal against government policy.
SmallTown
Well-known member
OK why do "pro choice" people belive in absolutes? Why do you think everything has to be either forever or never? Why do you ignore statistics and variabilty?
Randy
Well-known member
So why did people compare is with India then? And America? And Germany, etc etc etc
the_holgate_roof
Well-known member
I wonder if all the anti-vaxxers are hoping all us double jabbed folk keel over in about 10 years time foaming at the mouth so they all get the gaff to themselves….
Andy_W
Well-known member
You/ anti-vaxers in general are, you just don't know you are. It's a practical statistical certainty that everyone "active" is going to get it, or likely be exposed around 4-8 times if you're "out and about" in 2021-2023. Also, anti-Vaxers are not the type to be bunkering down, they're the opposite, look at all the clowns at the anti-vax rallies, who are meant to be "pro-choice", yet they're causing people to miss their vaccinations, scum of the earth.
It's either you get exposed and have antibodies that curtail it, quickly, and certainly decrease the duration of infectiousness, or you don't get vaxed and you increase your chance of hospitalisation by 9x. You also increase the duration of being positive (taking beds from those at more risk potentially, or ensure the hospitals can't run at 100%), and such able to spread it, and we all know it can still be spread if you have no symptoms yourself. That to me is willfully spread, or ignorant spreading, take your pick.
The under 18's don't have the same hospitalisation risk, so it's a little different for them, but it's not for supposed grown adults.
Andy_W
Well-known member
India's hard to compare with anyone, as they don't have accurate data.
Hard to compare the USA, as each state do their own thing, and some got hammered at the start with less notice, like New York etc, some have the seasonality/ climate benefit albeit that seemed more to matter with the original strains, rather than with Delta, which can seemingly make that a none event.
If you want to compare, compare with the most comparable nations if any at all.
Germany is fairly comparable, as is France, and maybe Spain and Italy to a lesser degree. The latter two had much less notice than us at the very start though, which kind of makes us look less bad. We're an island and don't have the same transit through as France and Germany, so we should have had it a bit easier, especially at the start.
Sweden is more comparable to its neighbours, Norway, Finland, Denmark etc, if anyone, but nothing like the UK. They also started to take stricter measures, after their first ****-up.