tonymcandrewshattrick
Well-known member
Have a good day Andy
Vaccine Passports
- Thread starter Norman_Conquest
- Start date
Andy_W
Well-known member
Good luck to them, as there won't be any doctors or nurses to look after them, and less public services personnel like teachers, cops, armed forces etc.I wonder if all the anti-vaxxers are hoping all us double jabbed folk keel over in about 10 years time foaming at the mouth so they all get the gaff to themselves….
It would be like the most ridiculous gloat ever. It would be like celebrating that they won a $hit eating contest.
It's kind of the same with brexit and them claiming they "won", all they did was win the worst prize, and then give that to those that didn't want it too. It's like the problems we're facing now, most remainers (like myself) point out the ****-ups, and we get told we're "loving it" apparently, and I can assure you we aren't, we're just realistic about what is going on and what has caused a lot of it. This is coming more clear as the UK and EU start to relax measures on covid, so we don't really have that to hide behind now.
Laughing
Well-known member
The real problem here is not so much how the government legislate during the pandemic nor is it different opinions. It is the stupid name calling from those that are happy for the government to be able to mandate whatever they want.
It's not vaxxers v anti vaxxers. It's a competition to belittle someone who sees things differently and then use stupid statements like scientific method to justify the name calling, often from people who don't understand scientific method but have read something on the BBC website.
This forum is the antithesis of social media when it comes to brexit or covid. There is nothing sociable about this thread and others.
I support freedom of choice and so should you all. Mandating anything around medical treatment or coercing people into medical treatment they don't want is inherently wrong.
Calling people names just makes you look ignorant and to do that whilst quoting "science" demonstrates you know nothing about science and its methods. Scientific fact on a new subject lasts on average 6 months. There is no scientific facts around covid. There is what we think we know and everything we don't know and assume.
Folks on here pick one post to respond to and ignore anything they don't have an answer for, that's not debate, that's bullying.
Shame on you
It's not vaxxers v anti vaxxers. It's a competition to belittle someone who sees things differently and then use stupid statements like scientific method to justify the name calling, often from people who don't understand scientific method but have read something on the BBC website.
This forum is the antithesis of social media when it comes to brexit or covid. There is nothing sociable about this thread and others.
I support freedom of choice and so should you all. Mandating anything around medical treatment or coercing people into medical treatment they don't want is inherently wrong.
Calling people names just makes you look ignorant and to do that whilst quoting "science" demonstrates you know nothing about science and its methods. Scientific fact on a new subject lasts on average 6 months. There is no scientific facts around covid. There is what we think we know and everything we don't know and assume.
Folks on here pick one post to respond to and ignore anything they don't have an answer for, that's not debate, that's bullying.
Shame on you
I'm just wondering, what are you basing your fear of long term side effects from a vaccine on?
For example, do you have any rational, evidentiary or scientific basis for it?
Because the reality is that no vaccine has ever been shown to have long term side effects - and there's a good reason for that. There's no biological mechanism to cause them.
Several scientists are quoted in the link below, here's one of them:
Is Old Vaccine Technology the Key to Hesitancy?
Vaccines deliver a tiny, tiny amount of material (measured in micrograms) that contains or produces proteins which the body sees as a potentially harmful pathogen. The body's immune system then creates antibodies and T cells that combine to destroy these foreign invaders.
So within a relatively short time period, none of the components of the vaccine are left in the body.
Again, see the quotes below:
Things to know about the long term side effects of covid vaccines
Since there's nothing left of the vaccine in the body after a very short while, there's no available mechanism for long term adverse side effects to occur.
That's true, but as I mentioned previously, no vaccine has ever had long term side effects and mRNA vaccines are if anything, even less likely to produce long term side effects, as explained below.
Why mRNA vaccines could be a game changer
Laughing
Well-known member
The cdc have a section on their website listing vaccine recalls so it does happen albeit infrequently.
That's untrue - or at least it's a serious mischaracterisation.
Vaccines don't "typically" take around ten years. It's true that they typically used to take that long, but others even in the past have taken much less. The mumps vaccine for instance, took only four years to develop and each year's flu vaccine is, in a very real sense, a new vaccine that has only taken a year to develop.
There was a very good video produced by the Oxford University vaccine development team, explaining why they were able to develop a vaccine so quickly.
For one thing, they reckon to have saved up to ten years development time by having already developed a vaccine platform for a disease X, in anticipation of a novel virus appearing. However if you watch the video there are also many, many other factors involved.
Yes, but not a single one of those were recalled because of long term side effects that only appeared years later (because that has never happened) and it actually lists only two recalls since 1955.
Here's the link, and a screenshot of the full list of vaccine safety concerns.
Historical Vaccine Safety Concerns
Laughing
Well-known member
You are right they are infrequent, batch recalls happen occasionally due to manufacturing process but to suggest that when vaccines are released they are proven as safe is not entirely accurate.
Even when recallef they could be better than a disease running amok but not if you are not in a vulnerable group.
Vaccines have to be safe for all folks taking them regardless of the maths.
The point I am making is that someone who is nervous of vaccinations whilst it should be considered a fear it isn't entirely a phobia there is some rationale behind it.
It's one of the reasons why we do have freedom of choice in vaccinations and we should continue to do so. The selfish argument that people are using is meaningless.
Our first obligation is to our families and as things stand today I would not allow my 10 year old to be vaccinated because the vaccination is more dangerous to her than the disease. That, of course means I am ignoring the greater good. So what I have a responsability first and foremost to my daughter.
But that's the point - you couldn't find any because it's never happened.
There is no evidence of vaccines being shown to have long term side effects.
It depends what you mean by "proven safe." No vaccine is ever completely, 100% risk free but they absolutely have to prove sufficient levels of both safety and efficacy before they are allowed to be given to the general public.
Those are the two basic and fundamental features required of any vaccine by the relevant regulatory authorities - safety and efficacy.
Nobody in a position of authority to do so is (to my knowledge) currently proposing to vaccinate 10 year-olds.
Even if you wanted to, there are no covid vaccines authorised for use on children under 12 anywhere in the world, anyway.
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Laughing
Well-known member
Except on the rare occasions they are recalled. They are recalled after being declared safe and later evidence shows they were not as safe as first thought. Which is the entire point I am making I guess. Criticising someone's reluctance as going against the science only holds so much water.
red_harrington
Well-known member
Example of a recent vaccine that was recalled and shown not to be safe?
Laughing
Well-known member
2 have just been given.
bear66
Well-known member
Two? Most recalls have been for manufacturing or contamination reasons. There have been a few recalls which were subsequently proven not to be a problem. The 1976 Swine Flu jab is one exception where there was an increased risk of GBS, albeit less of a risk than getting the flu! All flu vaccines are now monitored to see if there is an increase in GBS. Also, this was not a long term effect, but one quickly identified.
red_harrington
Well-known member
Yes and which of those were recalled and never used again because they were inherently dangerous?
Neither of them.
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tonymcandrewshattrick
Well-known member
