UK exports to European Union drop 40% in January

[Lefty]

Yes there were many different reasons why people voted leave. Not only economic. The massive social changes were a big factor too.

I don't use the block facility indiscriminately. I have only one person I have blocked over a few years who took it upon himself to throw personal insults at every opportunity to the point of obsession.
Unfortunately this thread has turned toxic so there is no point engaging anymore.

No disrespect to you but I will not go through your points one by one. but I will say I never thought Brexit was a good idea. It simply did not stack up on a risk/reward analysis. But I do respect the result and
the opportunity that was seized by the disenfranchised/forgotten people of the nation to stick one to the elitest tory dominated establishment , the champagne socialists , the lefty indoctrinated universities , the leftist media especially the BBC, and all achieved at the ballot box.

Its sad that it had to be on an issue that is so important but what else could it have been ?


I would like to use this forum for an exchange of views. I have to say when someone as articulate and as well researched as Adi_Dem throws personal insults around with almost every post they hit a bit harder.
So well done to them. In that respect they have an achievement.

You didn’t vote Leave?

 

[HundredRoom]

You didn’t vote Leave?

That statement is in the thread and I have stated it many times over the last months/years and always with the same reason

 

[HundredRoom]

Historically
At the beginning I was pro Brexit mostly as an antidote to an out of control bunch of overpaid undemocratic bunch of Beaurocrats who had turned the EU to suit their political ambitions not economic.

Running up to the vote it became clear that it was going to be an absolute nightmare to unravel 50 years of this incompetent deep intertwined monster. So it was a no Brexit for me . risk / reward

Now I have turned back the other way. The sheer contempt of government not to implement the vote and working class finally making a vote that actually counted for something only reinforced the case that it should be done and done with vigour.

I suppose it was inevitable there would be those who would never accept it. But they make themselves look like bears with their heads stuck in a jar of honey. Enjoying the sweet taste of the honey but achieving nothing to rid them of their self imprisonment.

 

[Lefty]

Do you think the Brexit the government has delivered, that it intended delivering, was the Brexit they promised people they would get or that a majority of the British public want?

 

[HundredRoom]

Do you think the Brexit the government has delivered, that it intended delivering, was the Brexit they promised people they would get or that a majority of the British public want?

Compromises were always going to have to be made. Nearly 50% of the voters didn't want it it. So how could it be delivered to expectations?
There has long been a tradition until recently that part of democracy is accepting when you lose the argument. I hope we don't ever lose that tradition.

It was a poignant moment during the vote count that Farage conceded, congratulated the remain side with a "We gave it our best shot we came up short" Not the exact quote but something like that.
Never came from the other side did it ?

In fact the whole mechanism of government was crippled during Mays latter time as PM.

 

[Way_Out_West]

It was a poignant moment during the vote count that Farage conceded, congratulated the remain side with a "We gave it our best shot we came up short" Not the exact quote but something like that.
Never came from the other side did it ?

It was certainly a tactical moment by Farage, not possibly knowing the result as it was immediately once the polling stations closed. However, it did give an opportunity for him to short on the value of the pound once he had 'conceded' and the value went up, for him then to make an absolute killing once the realisation came through that leave had won and the economy was due for a massive hit.

He played everyone for personal gain, while pretending to be a man of the people.

In fact, he famously said even if leave lost he wouldn't give up.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Do you think the Brexit the government has delivered, that it intended delivering, was the Brexit they promised people they would get or that a majority of the British public want?

It demonstrably isn’t by any analysis Lefty. It’s one of the things I really struggle to understand ie why those that did vote leave aren’t up in arms that the things they were promised haven’t been delivered and instead we have the catastrophic hard Brexit that was specifically and explicitly ruled out.

 

[Adi_Dem]

It was certainly a tactical moment by Farage, not possibly knowing the result as it was immediately once the polling stations closed. However, it did give an opportunity for him to short on the value of the pound once he had 'conceded' and the value went up, for him then to make an absolute killing once the realisation came through that leave had won and the economy was due for a massive hit.

He played everyone for personal gain, while pretending to be a man of the people.

In fact, he famously said even if leave lost he wouldn't give up.

This was the MO of the entire vote leave cabal that has ended up in government. It wasn’t anything other than a heist. Much like their approach to COVID.

 

[Lefty]

Compromises were always going to have to be made. Nearly 50% of the voters didn't want it it. So how could it be delivered to expectations?
There has long been a tradition until recently that part of democracy is accepting when you lose the argument. I hope we don't ever lose that tradition.

It was a poignant moment during the vote count that Farage conceded, congratulated the remain side with a "We gave it our best shot we came up short" Not the exact quote but something like that.
Never came from the other side did it ?

In fact the whole mechanism of government was crippled during Mays latter time as PM.

Part of democracy is setting out a manifesto and at least intending to implement it, is it not?

The purpose of a manifesto is surely to allow the public to make an informed choice?

It is also part of democracy that the press plays an important constitutional role by questioning the politicians on their manifesto, to test their honesty and competence, the feasibility of their plans, the foundations these plans are built on and the probability that their plan will achieve the states aims.

Did any of that happen?

 

[Lefty]

It was a poignant moment during the vote count that Farage conceded, congratulated the remain side with a "We gave it our best shot we came up short" Not the exact quote but something like that.
Never came from the other side did it ?

We now know that Farage was in receipt of polling data that showed Leave had won. This was actually a lie. The question is why would he say what he said? The answer lies in some rather dubious heavy movements in hedge fund betting by associates of the vote leave campaigns by the looks of it.

 

[Adi_Dem]

We now know that Farage was in receipt of polling data that showed Leave had won. This was actually a lie. The question is why would he say what he said? The answer lies in some rather dubious heavy movements in hedge fund betting by associates of the vote leave campaigns by the looks of it.

As I said above Lefty it was a heist.

 

[Centralscrutinizer]

Part of democracy is setting out a manifesto and at least intending to implement it, is it not?

The purpose of a manifesto is surely to allow the public to make an informed choice?

It is also part of democracy that the press plays an important constitutional role by questioning the politicians on their manifesto, to test their honesty and competence, the feasibility of their plans, the foundations these plans are built on and the probability that their plan will achieve the states aims.

Did any of that happen?

We're being badly let down by the media

 

[Lefty]

We're being badly let down by the media

We are indeed,

The attached graphic about trust in the written press, published last week I think, has not been widely reported in Britain. This is a huge annual survey by @EurobarometerEU across 33 countries. It's the ninth year out of the past ten that the UK has been last. We have a problem.

 

[Adi_Dem]

We have a problem.

There are a number of elements to having a ‘proper’ democracy. One is an independent judiciary, one is a media that will scrutinise, hold to account and challenge and the other is a strong and functioning opposition.

Right now I’d say the only one we are clinging onto is the independent judiciary and that is under attack.

 

[HundredRoom]

It was certainly a tactical moment by Farage, not possibly knowing the result as it was immediately once the polling stations closed. However, it did give an opportunity for him to short on the value of the pound once he had 'conceded' and the value went up, for him then to make an absolute killing once the realisation came through that leave had won and the economy was due for a massive hit.

He played everyone for personal gain, while pretending to be a man of the people.

In fact, he famously said even if leave lost he wouldn't give up.

That's quite an impressive fantasy.

The value of the pound. There was a whole raft of threads on here about how the demise of the pound was about to happen post Brexit. Where is it now ? Its all that Farage you know. He spends trillions on currency speculation not like that nice Mr Soros whos has brought Britain to its knees more than once.

 

[Scrote]

There has long been a tradition until recently that part of democracy is accepting when you lose the argument. I hope we don't ever lose that tradition.

If the argument had been lost then there wouldn't be such a backlash.

The simple fact is that the argument has never been formally made nor defended, it hasn't been tested* and the promises haven't been implemented.



*see the questions to Liz Truss et al from Emily Thornberry

 

[Scrote]

...stick one to the elitest tory dominated establishment , the champagne socialists , the lefty indoctrinated universities , the leftist media especially the BBC

1. Tory dominated establishment

That went well...

2. the champagne socialists , the lefty indoctrinated universities , the leftist media especially the BBC

I don't actually know what qualifies as 'champagne socialist' so I can't comment.

BBC News was and is dominated by right wing presenters and pundits - there was a long running tally done by Alex Nunn on the composition of the politics show panels and it came out at something like 60% right; 35% centrist and 5% left - the idea that the BBC is left wing politically is utter drivel - if you think it isn't just give a handful of examples of where left wing thought is given any sort of preference.

The Universities are so lefty dominated they produce all the right wing people that dominate our politics, write for the massively right-skewed media, and appear on the BBC.

Not really thought any of this through, have you?

 

[Adi_Dem]

1. Tory dominated establishment

That went well...

2. the champagne socialists , the lefty indoctrinated universities , the leftist media especially the BBC

I don't actually know what qualifies as 'champagne socialist' so I can't comment.

BBC News was and is dominated by right wing presenters and pundits - there was a long running tally done by Alex Nunn on the composition of the politics show panels and it came out at something like 60% right; 35% centrist and 5% left - the idea that the BBC is left wing politically is utter drivel - if you think it isn't just give a handful of examples of where left wing thought is given any sort of preference.

The Universities are so lefty dominated they produce all the right wing people that dominate our politics, write for the massively right-skewed media, and appear on the BBC.

Not really thought any of this through, have you?

Blimey I’m really pleased I clicked on the ignore button if this is the sort of ill thought out nonsense that is still being peddled.

 

[Way_Out_West]

That's quite an impressive fantasy.

The value of the pound. There was a whole raft of threads on here about how the demise of the pound was about to happen post Brexit. Where is it now ? Its all that Farage you know. He spends trillions on currency speculation not like that nice Mr Soros whos has brought Britain to its knees more than once.

The Brexit Short: How Hedge Funds Used Private Polls to Make Millions

The untold story of Leave’s big winners.

www.bloomberg.com

You're fairly naïve if you think rich people didn't make a lot of money from that 'concession'.

"Bloomberg’s account is based in part on interviews over seven months with more than 30 knowledgeable current and former polling-company executives, consultants and traders, nearly all of whom spoke only on the condition they not be named because of confidentiality agreements. Pollsters said they believed Brexit yielded one of the most profitable single days in the history of their industry."

 

[Adi_Dem]

The Brexit Short: How Hedge Funds Used Private Polls to Make Millions

The untold story of Leave’s big winners.

www.bloomberg.com

You're fairly naïve if you think rich people didn't make a lot of money from that 'concession'.

"Bloomberg’s account is based in part on interviews over seven months with more than 30 knowledgeable current and former polling-company executives, consultants and traders, nearly all of whom spoke only on the condition they not be named because of confidentiality agreements. Pollsters said they believed Brexit yielded one of the most profitable single days in the history of their industry."

This. There is seemingly no end to the delusion.