Tory`s win Hartlepool by 6940 votes.

repeatedly hear how one party or another is finished, doesn't happen. They do need to wake up though, the strategy of letting the tories trip over themselves requires the public actually having enough perception to realise and care.
Whigs, Liberals, SDP, and plenty of other parties that eventually disappeared or transmogrified into some other party. I don't know whether the Labour party is close to a break up, but I do think they need to work out who they see as their voters and start talking about policies. Gradually it seems that there's no appetite among the electorate for anything much left of centre, but Labour is still trying to straddle the political spectrum between communists on the left and disaffected Tories on the right.

Hartlepool was a terrible result for Labour. More people voted Tory than Labour in the general election. Keir Starmer seems to be watching this dispassionately, like lawyers do when you lose a trial. Lost that one, there'll be a new one next week, etc etc.
 
If that is their strategy it'll end in tears when either a) they fail to deliver or b) they run the country into massive debt or c) they lose seats elsewhere when divert money and opportunity away from the 'safe' Tory seats
It will end in years like the Thatcher era did.

What Johnson has managed to do via Brexit though is reset the clock with a lot of people.

Its like the previous 10 years of Tory failure belongs to another party, not Johnson’s Party.

Brexit, and Covid to some extent, has been portrayed as passing over to ‘the other side’.
 
,,,,,,,,"no appetite among the electorate for anything much left of centre, but Labour is still trying to straddle the political spectrum between communists on the left and disaffected Tories on the right.",,,,,,,,

Based on your statement above, how do you explain Labours success in 2017 and 2019 in Hartlepool and the election of the Labour Government by a huge landslide in 1945 - on a Socialist Programme?
As for the nonsense about "communism". Its not worth any further comment.
 
We all know the answer and are just afraid to say it out loud.............


Keir, give Mr Cummings a call (you never know he might already be in the North East).
 
I suspect, though have no evidence, that this result is a swampy combination of vaccine bounce for the Government, Johnson standing up to French fishermen, Labour putting up a candidate who was against Brexit, Hartlepool people not being interested in the wallpaper issue or having any truck with so called ‘woke’ politics and wanting their share of the money being thrown at the red wall seats.
 
Excuse to what? Low turnout is never a good thing no matter who wins.
You have to be realistic here, other than a headline for a day or two this by election did not really matter did it?

Labour had nothing to offer, they are not in power.

The Johnson Tories were on firm ground in a Brexit seat, they could offer some money from central government, they would have won it 2019 but for a vote split with UKIP.

There were probably a lot of non Tory voters who abstained on the basis that the farmer winning would get some much needed money into the town.

I‘m not saying Labour don’t need to improve but I’m not convinced there is much to see here.
 
I wouldnt called anybody "stupid" or "tribalistic" - but you use emotive language, so I asked you questions in order to clarify your answers. With any discourse its important to understand what the other person means by their questions rather than rely on personal assumptions (y)
Please be polite and dont attribute your opinions by transferring them to me - you appear by your comments to have a pre-rehearsed perception of others, which clearly colours your responses and judgement.
Perhaps you may benefit from being more circumspect in formulating your opinions?
Roofie, I’m so sorry, I certainly wasn’t having a go at you. My comments were aimed at The left in general (of which I am one). Reading back my post, it could be taken as being aimed at you, but it sincerely wasn’t, It was a general “you” maybe I should have used “they” instead,

it’s not my style to cause aggravation on this message board, I’m not looking to pick a fight, I’m just trying to get to the heart of the matter and I think that times have changed.

We have never lived in a more consumer led capitalist society, materialism and image are key and I think ideology is less of a factor in people’s political choices than ever before. We are remnants of a past generation I’m afraid.
 
I've read this sentiment quite a lot over the past few weeks but can anyone tell me what the people who have decided to vote Conservative rather than Labour actually want? What is it that has made apparently 'dyed-in-the-wool' voters of a traditionally left-leaning party move to the right of politics? They can't have done it to protest that the Labour Party has moved too far right for them because that wouldn't make any sense, so what is it? Is it purely Brexit? Is it a protest against anyone even remotely left being viewed as soft, metropolitan, liberal, woke on TV and in papers and almost everywhere? If people are protesting about a lack of opposition then is the best way to do that to vote for the government? I can't get my head around that.

I would love to know the reasons why people are switching to the Tories after more than a decade of Conservative-led, ideologically-driven austerity.

I've thought the same. I think this is a hangover from Brexit, a vaccine bounce and the fact that Labour currently have nothing to offer policy wise. The shadow cabinet are strangers to the public. I don't think any of the above can change really in the next year or two.

As we get closer to the inevitable election hopefully Labour can bring out some policies that appeal to the country... and that the Tory propaganda machine falters somehow.
 
I like Houchen, his Q&As he does with the public are pretty good. I’ve had dealings with him and he delivered on his promise to grt money released early by pressing the right people, allowing a project to be brought forward.
The airport has a fighting chance to be an asset again, maybe not a money maker, but an integral part of Teessides transport infrastructure, plus the rail network which is being improved.
With him as mayor we are seeing major investment.

unfortunately the Tory moral compass isn’t my thing when it comes to local elections.
 
,,,,,,,,"no appetite among the electorate for anything much left of centre, but Labour is still trying to straddle the political spectrum between communists on the left and disaffected Tories on the right.",,,,,,,,

Based on your statement above, how do you explain Labours success in 2017 and 2019 in Hartlepool and the election of the Labour Government by a huge landslide in 1945 - on a Socialist Programme?
As for the nonsense about "communism". Its not worth any further comment.
1945 is 76 years ago. Times have changed and electoral expectations have changed, and there hasn't been a World War. 2019 - the Tories would probably have won without their vote being split by the Brexit issue. 2017 - I have no idea. Perhaps the electorate decided Jeremy Corbyn really was the answer. Like everyone else, I'm wondering why Labour couldn't make a better fist of fighting off a really bad Tory government with more skeletons in the closet than a medical school.
 
Tory propaganda machine wins through again for me. Taking credit for minor victories (or even things which aren't victories at all, but are sold as such) coupled with the promise of a better tomorrow.

I know the post above re: Cummings was meant tongue-in-cheek (I think?) but I'm starting to come round to the idea of taking them on at their own game. A race to the bottom in terms of lies, spin, fraud and deception cos it's clear the average voter doesn't give a toss about ideologies, their financial, personal or societal well-being anymore. :cautious:
 
You have to be realistic here, other than a headline for a day or two this by election did not really matter did it?

Labour had nothing to offer, they are not in power.

The Johnson Tories were on firm ground in a Brexit seat, they could offer some money from central government, they would have won it 2019 but for a vote split with UKIP.

There were probably a lot of non Tory voters who abstained on the basis that the farmer winning would get some much needed money into the town.

I‘m not saying Labour don’t need to improve but I’m not convinced there is much to see here
That sounds like you heads in the sand. Nothing to see here? Labour do not have an identity at the moment. They had an identity under corbyn
it’s the third time history the tories have gained a seat in a by election.
 
It will end in years like the Thatcher era did.

What Johnson has managed to do via Brexit though is reset the clock with a lot of people.

Its like the previous 10 years of Tory failure belongs to another party, not Johnson’s Party.

Brexit, and Covid to some extent, has been portrayed as passing over to ‘the other side’.
There is a strong message that 2019 was the start of "Tory rule". It is in that this Johnson government is far removed from any previous Tory government, including the Thatcher era. It will be a long way out of this mess. Firstly the jingoistic, incompetent, lying bumpkin needs to go. I don't see any appetite for that with winning Tories and he could still be here after the next election. When people then want change, a moderate, grey "Major" will scrape another election. It'll only be then that the historic view of the mess the country is in will lead to a new "Blair" winning such a majority that people will again say "the Tories are finished as a political party".

I wonder how many 18 to 25s voted yesterday? It's only if younger people take responsibility for their futures that the above scenario of long New Tory rule can be avoided. The SNP have given young people a vision of the future for them and an involvement in politics that isn't apparent in England
 
Roofie, I’m so sorry, I certainly wasn’t having a go at you. My comments were aimed at The left in general (of which I am one). Reading back my post, it could be taken as being aimed at you, but it sincerely wasn’t, It was a general “you” maybe I should have used “they” instead,

it’s not my style to cause aggravation on this message board, I’m not looking to pick a fight, I’m just trying to get to the heart of the matter and I think that times have changed.

We have never lived in a more consumer led capitalist society, materialism and image are key and I think ideology is less of a factor in people’s political choices than ever before. We are remnants of a past generation I’m afraid.
Apologies - I obviously got the wrong end of the stick [not for the first or last time].
I certainly feel sometimes like "a remnant".
Perhaps some voters would benefit by learning from history.... (y) :)
 
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There is a strong message that 2019 was the start of "Tory rule". It is in that this Johnson government is far removed from any previous Tory government, including the Thatcher era. It will be a long way out of this mess. Firstly the jingoistic, incompetent, lying bumpkin needs to go. I don't see any appetite for that with winning Tories and he could still be here after the next election. When people then want change, a moderate, grey "Major" will scrape another election. It'll only be then that the historic view of the mess the country is in will lead to a new "Blair" winning such a majority that people will again say "the Tories are finished as a political party".

I wonder how many 18 to 25s voted yesterday? It's only if younger people take responsibility for their futures that the above scenario of long New Tory rule can be avoided. The SNP have given young people a vision of the future for them and an involvement in politics that isn't apparent in England
Wales have lowered the voting age to 16, we should too
 
1945 is 76 years ago. Times have changed and electoral expectations have changed, and there hasn't been a World War. 2019 - the Tories would probably have won without their vote being split by the Brexit issue. 2017 - I have no idea. Perhaps the electorate decided Jeremy Corbyn really was the answer. Like everyone else, I'm wondering why Labour couldn't make a better fist of fighting off a really bad Tory government with more skeletons in the closet than a medical school.
Agreed. The media propaganda machine is definitely working at the moment and general apathy and alienation appears to be playing its part.:unsure: (y)
 
I've been suggesting to friends & neighbours for most of the last decade that "traditional" politics is dead. Society has changed so, so much in recent years and politics and politicians aren't the only ones struggling to keep up with the pace of change. A mixture of FPTP, the manipulation of the narrative and apathy (a particular gripe of mine) means we'll never have a properly representative government. Meanwhile, I can't believe that this government, and the Prime Minister in particular, doesn't get much more stick.
 
Excuse to what? Low turnout is never a good thing no matter who wins.
When the polls were coming out you dismissed them due to their "small samples".

Those results turn out to be very accurate, "low turnout"

It's time for a reality check.
 
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