* The Unofficial "Official" Boro v Sheffield Wednesday Match-Day Thread *
- Thread starter r00fie1
- Start date
It was THAT bad, you're right.Tonight was like that Cardiff cup match - where we fell to bits and were just appalling.
Unbelievably bad.
"Bewildered"
I think we have reached a tipping point, tonight. I like Carrick and I dont blame him for this. The players that have been brought in are just not even close to good enough.
Something is clearly up with McGree and Carrick. To take him off and leave on the excuse that was Silvera. I feel sorry for Silvera because he is going to make himself the yardstick on how poor a player can play. Engel just hasnt got it and I doubt we will ever see him again. Coulson will stay in the team before Engel ever gets near it again.
I think we are at the same stage as we were with Woodgate. We have a young, ambitious coach who will play football the right way - its all he knows. But he doesnt have the players to do it. I fear the only way we move up the league is with a Warnock type approach - we dont have the players to do the nice stuff so set the team up to defend and grind out results.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
Don't be coming on here taking sense, we are only open to those who think Carrick has lost the plot and knows nothing about football.
The Card Cheat
Well-known member
Was there a potential foul for our goal? It looked scrappy but I didn't see anything that could have lead to it being disallowed.
TeaCider
Well-known member
Lenihan was dragging their player to the floor for the whole move, I'd definitely have expected that to be disallowed in the Premier League.
Happy for Lenihan to finally get his goal though, as I really like him as a player for us.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
I've watched the goal again and again and I wonder if Lenihan pulls his hair whilst going for the ball.
allied_assault
Well-known member
Southampton will murder us if we pick that 1st half team
dooderooni
Well-known member
Think you're being a bit harsh on some fans there Norman.Don't be coming on here taking sense, we are only open to those who think Carrick has lost the plot and knows nothing about football.
We are watching the same game as Carrick and the only difference is that we don't have to worry about facing the players tomorrow.
After the way Engels got tortured in that first half it wouldn't surprise me if Carrick kept Silvera on simply to avoid destroying the confidence of two of his squad inside 45 minutes. He could arguably have made 5 changes at half time and nobody would have complained, but as our confidence is so low right now how would those changes have impacted the ones being subbed? Fans don't need to consider that side of the game and so it's only right that they'll sometimes question what the manager/coach is doing.
We are really poor at this point in time and I can completely understand those who are questioning Carricks decisions, particularly as interviews are next to useless in terms of getting to the truth of the matter. If his decisions start paying off then everyone will be happier and those questions won't get asked.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
I would argue that the eleven who started will never be the eleven that start another first team game for the Boro. I would even say that one or two should never be in the first team squad again.
The Ruthsayer
Well-known member
Owen McGee?
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
I can't fault you on what you are saying and agree with you 100%. I'm not pointing posters out and it certainly wasn't TeaCider but we have had plenty on here saying that Carrick is out of his depth and although not directly, they are questioning his tenure.
Silvera has lost nearly all his confidence and needs a spell out of the team. We were lucky Sheff Weds were so poor. I couldn’t believe how deep they were playing second half and just inviting us onto them. With a bit more craft, we could have got a winner. Mind you, there were a couple of scares at our end in the last 15 minutes.
All pretty frenetic but a points a point I guess!
All pretty frenetic but a points a point I guess!
As bad as it gets picking 4 Centre Halfs and no pace up front
Otto42
Well-known member
There’s a lot in this, confidence among the new lads, most in a new country must be shot to pieces and we will probably need some of them at some point. In pre season Silvera looked like a prospect, so perhaps that’s what he sees in training? I wouldn’t be starting him, but wouldn’t write him off….Engel, Coulson and Rogers already seem written off. Lath’s confidence is low and we don’t seem to trust Greenwood. There aren’t many options unless we give the academy lads a go given injuries to Forss, Smith and Dijksteel.
r00fie1
Well-known member
Carrick is so used to working with world class, top quality players in a style which would see us easily beat Burnley`s points total of last season, but you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear. There was one point last night - we were on the attack - and our player pulled up short. I thought - if that had been Leadbitter he would have chipped the goalie and scored. I also had a picture of Archer accelerating past the oncoming goalie, rounding him and scoring a cracker! I wouldnt swap Michael Carrick for anyone else at the moment but I would resort to using our players with experience in the English game. Some of the new lads need inducting gradually. Its clear, some are just suffering the "shock of capture". It cant be good for them or their confidence. Last season seems a long way away - like we`de played in the Champions League. But we have to work with what we`ve got. Carrick will be back on that phone to Sir Alex and Sir Steve today. Cant but feel his frustration.
"They`l always let you down son...."!
We have to smile or we`de give up.
"They`l always let you down son...."!
We have to smile or we`de give up.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Didn't comment during the game last night as wanted to concentrate a bit more on it.
1: Silvera's decision-making is probably some of the worst I've ever seen as a footballer for Boro. I don't think this is going to improve as this is a head thing/natural thing. Doesn't matter how good your feet are, if your head doesn't work, and your head is controlling them. I don't think he quite understands how strong and quick other players can be and he seriously over-values his shooting ability.
2: Crooks isn't fit enough to be playing 90 minutes, he was toast after about 60 minutes and stopped running, in an effective way. In possession, he would run two yards, stop and turn back and play an easy ball, when not in posession he wouldn't (couldn't) make the runs like he used to, to get onto crosses. This didn't achieve anything other than slow momentum down (and actually slow Jones down), and when he was tired his forward passing became a bit lazy also. He put a shift in for the 60 mins, so it's not a dig at him, but the combination of Jones and Crooks could have been better timed.
3: Jones was very effective, but I think it helped him that their left back and whole side had tired by the time he came on. Problem was our other players were tired when he came on, he must have got round the back or beat his man 20 times, but nobody could keep up. It was often 1 v 4 in their box, so he couldn't even cross it if he wanted to, ended up slowing down most of the time, and then waiting until payers made it to the top of the box. Opportunity wasted. I think bringing him on at HT could be a good long-term ploy and bring Crooks on at the same time. Should have brought Latte on at the same time too, and could have even dropped Coburn into Crooks role, even if just for fitness/ strength, and sacrificing his goal threat, or push Hackney into there.
4: Their goal was extremely lucky, their lad didn't even look up to pull that ball back, but the lad who scored should have been marked. Maybe the sub caused a bit of confusion over who should pick him up, but it's a partial excuse.
Going forward I think our game plan has to be to try and just keep the game fairly tight for 45 minutes, and maybe not even starting with our best team, and then use up what threats we do have (Jobnes/ Crooks combo) when their players are tired. So front 4 I could be starting Coburn, McGree left, Hackney as No10, Forss/ Rogers/ Silvera right. Then second half Latte up top, McGree left, Crooks middle and Jones right, and drop Hackney back into holding mid to replace howson (who is old). Or see how Greenwood can do as a 10.
I think we missed a trick by keeping Crooks on the pitch and could have easily pushed Hackney in there, as we had two good options for holding mid to bring on, with Howson and Barlaser, and bringing Rogers on is a waste of a space on the pitch, like Silvera. I would rather fit Howson and Barlaser or the pitch, and squeeze in others into positions they may not be comfortable with, rather than playing Silvera and Rogers.
Or another option is just sack off the idea of a 10, as it's a massive problem at the minute, for the whole game, so could play 2 up top, or one holding mid and two more progressive mids. McGree could be a shout for No10, but we don't have a good left-wing option, so he's going to have to get stuck out there, unless Forss can go that side.
1: Silvera's decision-making is probably some of the worst I've ever seen as a footballer for Boro. I don't think this is going to improve as this is a head thing/natural thing. Doesn't matter how good your feet are, if your head doesn't work, and your head is controlling them. I don't think he quite understands how strong and quick other players can be and he seriously over-values his shooting ability.
2: Crooks isn't fit enough to be playing 90 minutes, he was toast after about 60 minutes and stopped running, in an effective way. In possession, he would run two yards, stop and turn back and play an easy ball, when not in posession he wouldn't (couldn't) make the runs like he used to, to get onto crosses. This didn't achieve anything other than slow momentum down (and actually slow Jones down), and when he was tired his forward passing became a bit lazy also. He put a shift in for the 60 mins, so it's not a dig at him, but the combination of Jones and Crooks could have been better timed.
3: Jones was very effective, but I think it helped him that their left back and whole side had tired by the time he came on. Problem was our other players were tired when he came on, he must have got round the back or beat his man 20 times, but nobody could keep up. It was often 1 v 4 in their box, so he couldn't even cross it if he wanted to, ended up slowing down most of the time, and then waiting until payers made it to the top of the box. Opportunity wasted. I think bringing him on at HT could be a good long-term ploy and bring Crooks on at the same time. Should have brought Latte on at the same time too, and could have even dropped Coburn into Crooks role, even if just for fitness/ strength, and sacrificing his goal threat, or push Hackney into there.
4: Their goal was extremely lucky, their lad didn't even look up to pull that ball back, but the lad who scored should have been marked. Maybe the sub caused a bit of confusion over who should pick him up, but it's a partial excuse.
Going forward I think our game plan has to be to try and just keep the game fairly tight for 45 minutes, and maybe not even starting with our best team, and then use up what threats we do have (Jobnes/ Crooks combo) when their players are tired. So front 4 I could be starting Coburn, McGree left, Hackney as No10, Forss/ Rogers/ Silvera right. Then second half Latte up top, McGree left, Crooks middle and Jones right, and drop Hackney back into holding mid to replace howson (who is old). Or see how Greenwood can do as a 10.
I think we missed a trick by keeping Crooks on the pitch and could have easily pushed Hackney in there, as we had two good options for holding mid to bring on, with Howson and Barlaser, and bringing Rogers on is a waste of a space on the pitch, like Silvera. I would rather fit Howson and Barlaser or the pitch, and squeeze in others into positions they may not be comfortable with, rather than playing Silvera and Rogers.
Or another option is just sack off the idea of a 10, as it's a massive problem at the minute, for the whole game, so could play 2 up top, or one holding mid and two more progressive mids. McGree could be a shout for No10, but we don't have a good left-wing option, so he's going to have to get stuck out there, unless Forss can go that side.
