The Madeleine McCann case: “major breakthrough”

Nobody, least of all the McCanns would disagree with you in saying their actions were irresponsible and ill judged. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The likelihood is that despite our own individual personal views of what is right and wrong in terms of childcare, I doubt there is a parent alive that hasn’t made a stupid error or errors. Most thank goodness are without consequence. This family have paid a huge price for theirs. Madeleine the highest price of all.
Their will be some families that still do such a thing unfortunately. I guess if there are no consequences then it becomes normalised behaviour

Personally speaking, If you are a family you stick together as a family. I would never act like the McCanns did. However, I would not trust strangers in a hotel complex who provided a baby sitting facility to look after my young kids. Was it a babysitting service where someone actually stayed with the children at all times, or was it more the usual I have come across, where someone pops in every so often and checks? If the latter, isn’t that what the group themselves were doing anyway? Did the service provide listening devices within rooms to staff providing the service? If so, how can people be sure they don’t get distracted by something else at times? I don’t think allowing a total stranger to babysit is acceptable personally, but that might be just me.

We all judge others too quickly and make excuses for our own flaws and slip ups. I think the McCanns are owning theirs tbf. The law of unintended and unexpected consequence applies unfortunately. As I said earlier, despite the McCanns Ill advised actions, the children should still all have expected to have remained safe in a locked bedroom. The fact they were not has more to do with the kidnapper rather than the McCanns, on balance, for me.

The McCann's went on a family holiday and whilst I except we can all make mistakes and lower our guard sometimes, we also have to learn from them in matters of such importance.

The McCann's were notified by the hotel that Madeline had been crying whilst were out the night before the incident happened. Now if that was me and I would like to think that all loving parents would think the same, I would be embarrassed and mortified by my error and hurt at the thought that i had left your children unattended and that they had become distressed and that I wasn't there to comfort them and I would want to do everything possible not let it happen again.

So as a response what did the McCann's choose to do, yes they want out yet again for their own entertainment and enjoyment, leaving not one, not two, but three children under the aged of three once again on their own.

If you so desperately have to go out on a family holiday to a night of eating and drinking with a group of friends, take your children with you, let them sleep in a pram next to you or better still put your children who can't fend for themselves first, one of you stay in and the other go out and change over each night. They positively chose to put themselves first yet again in in light of knowing what they knew, it was deliberate, neglectful and unforgivable in my view.

I don't let my feelings of what might have happened to Madeline who was relying on her parents to care and protect get in the way of what they did and the right and proper questions about their fitness to be the parents.
 
I posted earlier that with both of them being doctors, they would have the skill and experience to sedate the kids (in tablet or injection form) so that they shouldn't wake up - hence the surprise.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not saying they did do this
Do people actually sedate their kids?
I've has plenty of rough nights with my kids when they either refuse to sleep or wake up in the middle of the night and won't back to sleep. The thought of sedating my kids has never crossed my mind as that is utterly bonkers
 
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The McCann's went on a family holiday and whilst I except we can all make mistakes and lower our guard sometimes, we also have to learn from them in matters of such importance.

The McCann's were notified by the hotel that Madeline had been crying whilst were out the night before the incident happened. Now if that was me and I would like to think that all loving parents would think the same, I would be embarrassed and mortified by my error and hurt at the thought that i had left your children unattended and that they had become distressed and that I wasn't there to comfort them and I would want to do everything possible not let it happen again.

So as a response what did the McCann's choose to do, yes they want out yet again for their own entertainment and enjoyment, leaving not one, not two, but three children under the aged of three once again on their own.

If you so desperately have to go out on a family holiday to a night of eating and drinking with a group of friends, take your children with you, let them sleep in a pram next to you or better still put your children who can't fend for themselves first, one of you stay in and the other go out and change over each night. They positively chose to put themselves first yet again in in light of knowing what they knew, it was deliberate, neglectful and unforgivable in my view.

I don't let my feelings of what might have happened to Madeline who was relying on her parents to care and protect get in the way of what they did and the right and proper questions about their fitness to be the parents.

Well, I personally agree with much of that, but not all.

They have imho a life sentence of pain anguish and torment, they will never be free of it. They will always have people pointing the finger too. They are not one offs in society that behave as they did. They have to somehow make their other children come to terms with their actions. Forgiveness is hard for some people, thats fine, we are all different and are capable of different levels of all sorts of things.

If you want to talk about fitness to be a parent, if you ever worked with child protection cases like I have, you might realise there are an awful lot of people who might fail your standard of fit and proper, much more so than the McCanns ever would.

What about parents who regularly take illegal drugs?
What about parents who drink way to much and pass out through alcohol from time after time?
What about parents who threaten and occasionally assault their kids?
What about the many parent(s) who despite the McCanns case do this from time to time?
What about the cases we all occasionally read where the mother has gone on a weeks holiday with a boyfriend leaving kids to fend for themselves?
What about single parents who have relationships with seriously violent partners and despite this knowledge continue the relationships?
There are some kids who have become almost feral due to terrible parenting. Gangs of kids wandering around sink estates in towns and cities up and down the country. I have come across more dysfunctional families in work related environments that most would think Impossible or made up if they only knew the half of it.

I could go on. NOBODY condones what the McCann family did, least of all me. I would bet they are incredibly remorseful of their own actions. However, most cases of stupidity (which is not a crime in itself) don’t end up with the outcome poor Maddie endured, so you don’t get to see or hear about them as they are less likely to be in the public domain as much. As I said the law of unintended consequences applies. People still do this on holiday because they are overly relaxed and unaware of all that is happening around them. Resorts at home and abroad attract criminals from all over tourists are the softest targets of all and the easiest to prey on.

In the other examples I mentioned, the kids involved suffer significantly, some scarred for life, many have reduced life chances and may grow up to repeat the parents behaviour as they may see it as normalised. What you don’t see or hear, is that ok? It might be happening next door, on your street or neighbourhood somewhere. Social Services can not take all kids into care who live in chaotic households with disturbing behaviour from parents. In some houses Social Services may never know the suffering behind four walls.

There are far worse parents than The McCanns, behaving in a far worse manner, In most neighbourhoods around where we all live. However, thankfully very few suffer the fate the McCanns unintendedly caused. The McCanns, Maddie in particular, have paid a huge price for parental mistakes. A murderer gets around 15 years maybe, The McCanns have a life sentence of torture pain and anguish that I would not wish on anyone. They have my criticism, but what is done can not be undone. Based on all that is in the public domain at present, they have my empathy and given their personal situation I wish the whole family well moving forward.
 
Well, I personally agree with much of that, but not all.

They have imho a life sentence of pain anguish and torment, they will never be free of it. They will always have people pointing the finger too. They are not one offs in society that behave as they did. They have to somehow make their other children come to terms with their actions. Forgiveness is hard for some people, thats fine, we are all different and are capable of different levels of all sorts of things.

If you want to talk about fitness to be a parent, if you ever worked with child protection cases like I have, you might realise there are an awful lot of people who might fail your standard of fit and proper, much more so than the McCanns ever would.

What about parents who regularly take illegal drugs?
What about parents who drink way to much and pass out through alcohol from time after time?
What about parents who threaten and occasionally assault their kids?
What about the many parent(s) who despite the McCanns case do this from time to time?
What about the cases we all occasionally read where the mother has gone on a weeks holiday with a boyfriend leaving kids to fend for themselves?
What about single parents who have relationships with seriously violent partners and despite this knowledge continue the relationships?
There are some kids who have become almost feral due to terrible parenting. Gangs of kids wandering around sink estates in towns and cities up and down the country. I have come across more dysfunctional families in work related environments that most would think Impossible or made up if they only knew the half of it.

I could go on. NOBODY condones what the McCann family did, least of all me. I would bet they are incredibly remorseful of their own actions. However, most cases of stupidity (which is not a crime in itself) don’t end up with the outcome poor Maddie endured, so you don’t get to see or hear about them as they are less likely to be in the public domain as much. As I said the law of unintended consequences applies. People still do this on holiday because they are overly relaxed and unaware of all that is happening around them. Resorts at home and abroad attract criminals from all over tourists are the softest targets of all and the easiest to prey on.

In the other examples I mentioned, the kids involved suffer significantly, some scarred for life, many have reduced life chances and may grow up to repeat the parents behaviour as they may see it as normalised. What you don’t see or hear, is that ok? It might be happening next door, on your street or neighbourhood somewhere. Social Services can not take all kids into care who live in chaotic households with disturbing behaviour from parents. In some houses Social Services may never know the suffering behind four walls.

There are far worse parents than The McCanns, behaving in a far worse manner, In most neighbourhoods around where we all live. However, thankfully very few suffer the fate the McCanns unintendedly caused. The McCanns, Maddie in particular, have paid a huge price for parental mistakes. A murderer gets around 15 years maybe, The McCanns have a life sentence of torture pain and anguish that I would not wish on anyone. They have my criticism, but what is done can not be undone. Based on all that is in the public domain at present, they have my empathy and given their personal situation I wish the whole family well moving forward.

All those what about don’t negate what the McCann’s did. I’m not sure what relevance they all have to Madeline McCann and her siblings being left unsupervised in a room by themselves.
 
The McCann's went on a family holiday and whilst I except we can all make mistakes and lower our guard sometimes, we also have to learn from them in matters of such importance.

The McCann's were notified by the hotel that Madeline had been crying whilst were out the night before the incident happened. Now if that was me and I would like to think that all loving parents would think the same, I would be embarrassed and mortified by my error and hurt at the thought that i had left your children unattended and that they had become distressed and that I wasn't there to comfort them and I would want to do everything possible not let it happen again.

So as a response what did the McCann's choose to do, yes they want out yet again for their own entertainment and enjoyment, leaving not one, not two, but three children under the aged of three once again on their own.

If you so desperately have to go out on a family holiday to a night of eating and drinking with a group of friends, take your children with you, let them sleep in a pram next to you or better still put your children who can't fend for themselves first, one of you stay in and the other go out and change over each night. They positively chose to put themselves first yet again in in light of knowing what they knew, it was deliberate, neglectful and unforgivable in my view.

I don't let my feelings of what might have happened to Madeline who was relying on her parents to care and protect get in the way of what they did and the right and proper questions about their fitness to be the parents.

At the end of the day if they hadn't shown such a lack of parenting capability and neglect this wouldn't have happened, they do need to be held accountable.
 
All those what about don’t negate what the McCann’s did. I’m not sure what relevance they all have to Madeline McCann and her siblings being left unsupervised in a room by themselves.

I have read it again and it is clear enough gaz why i wrote my comments. I stand by the fact their are far worse parental deeds happening daily that do not suffer the unintended consequences to Maddie. I have also made clear my thoughts about their parenting at the time.

Why some people want to pillory them for ever and a day I don’t get. I guess some people can display forgiveness and empathy, whilst some can’t or troublingly won’t. However, I don’t see the McCanns having been charged with a crime as yet and, like I said earlier, you me everyone have our own skeletons. It is easy to be whiter than white on a message board when your own life isn’t being laid bare for the wolves to ravage over.
 
Well, I personally agree with much of that, but not all.

They have imho a life sentence of pain anguish and torment, they will never be free of it. They will always have people pointing the finger too. They are not one offs in society that behave as they did. They have to somehow make their other children come to terms with their actions. Forgiveness is hard for some people, thats fine, we are all different and are capable of different levels of all sorts of things.

If you want to talk about fitness to be a parent, if you ever worked with child protection cases like I have, you might realise there are an awful lot of people who might fail your standard of fit and proper, much more so than the McCanns ever would.

What about parents who regularly take illegal drugs?
What about parents who drink way to much and pass out through alcohol from time after time?
What about parents who threaten and occasionally assault their kids?
What about the many parent(s) who despite the McCanns case do this from time to time?
What about the cases we all occasionally read where the mother has gone on a weeks holiday with a boyfriend leaving kids to fend for themselves?
What about single parents who have relationships with seriously violent partners and despite this knowledge continue the relationships?
There are some kids who have become almost feral due to terrible parenting. Gangs of kids wandering around sink estates in towns and cities up and down the country. I have come across more dysfunctional families in work related environments that most would think Impossible or made up if they only knew the half of it.

I could go on. NOBODY condones what the McCann family did, least of all me. I would bet they are incredibly remorseful of their own actions. However, most cases of stupidity (which is not a crime in itself) don’t end up with the outcome poor Maddie endured, so you don’t get to see or hear about them as they are less likely to be in the public domain as much. As I said the law of unintended consequences applies. People still do this on holiday because they are overly relaxed and unaware of all that is happening around them. Resorts at home and abroad attract criminals from all over tourists are the softest targets of all and the easiest to prey on.

In the other examples I mentioned, the kids involved suffer significantly, some scarred for life, many have reduced life chances and may grow up to repeat the parents behaviour as they may see it as normalised. What you don’t see or hear, is that ok? It might be happening next door, on your street or neighbourhood somewhere. Social Services can not take all kids into care who live in chaotic households with disturbing behaviour from parents. In some houses Social Services may never know the suffering behind four walls.

There are far worse parents than The McCanns, behaving in a far worse manner, In most neighbourhoods around where we all live. However, thankfully very few suffer the fate the McCanns unintendedly caused. The McCanns, Maddie in particular, have paid a huge price for parental mistakes. A murderer gets around 15 years maybe, The McCanns have a life sentence of torture pain and anguish that I would not wish on anyone. They have my criticism, but what is done can not be undone. Based on all that is in the public domain at present, they have my empathy and given their personal situation I wish the whole family well moving forward.

I too work in children's social care, all those of situations you mention are ones where for whatever reason the parents cannot or are unable to put the needs of their children first, in my experience they are investigated are either be supported to make change, or placed on child protection or have their children removed, and yes there are some cases that fall through the safety net.

Don't forget most children who are murdered in this country are done so by their parents or care giver or someone who is know to them.

This is about the care and protection of children who can not look after themselves. Compare the McCann's with whoever else you like but they made a deliberate and concious choice in full light of knowing they were leaving their vulnerable children repeated on their own for the sake of their own leisure and enjoyment and I will question and be critical of their choices all day every day.
 
At the end of the day if they hadn't shown such a lack of parenting capability and neglect this wouldn't have happened, they do need to be held accountable.

They have been held to account, they have, they continue to be so in most houses up and down the country, across the media. If you don’t think they have, continue to and will do so till the day they die, then I am lost for words. The Police have not charged them with anything they have far more knowledge of events than you or I. We have a rule of law in this country. Last I checked, the public do not have the right to be Judge, Jury, Prosecutor and Executioner. Long may that be the case otherwise 75% of the country would be in jail or dead.
 
I too work in children's social care, all those of situations you mention are ones where for whatever reason the parents cannot or are unable to put the needs of their children first, in my experience they are investigated are either be supported to make change, or placed on child protection or have their children removed, and yes there are some cases that fall through the safety net.

Don't forget most children who are murdered in this country are done so by their parents or care giver or someone who is know to them.

This is about the care and protection of children who can not look after themselves. Compare the McCann's with whoever else you like but they made a deliberate and concious choice in full light of knowing they were leaving their vulnerable children repeated on their own for the sake of their own leisure and enjoyment and I will question and be critical of their choices all day every day.

As I have also criticised.
 
They have been held to account, they have, they continue to be so in most houses up and down the country, across the media. If you don’t think they have, continue to and will do so till the day they die, then I am lost for words. The Police have not charged them with anything they have far more knowledge of events than you or I. We have a rule of law in this country. Last I checked, the public do not have the right to be Judge, Jury, Prosecutor and Executioner. Long may that be the case otherwise 75% of the country would be in jail or dead.
They made the choice to leave their 3 children to go on a jolly, they deserve to be judged by everybody until the day they die. A little girl has probably lost her life because of their neglect and selfishness.
 
They made the choice to leave their 3 children to go on a jolly, they deserve to be judged by everybody until the day they die. A little girl has probably lost her life because of their neglect and selfishness.
What nonsense, I'm sorry. A child has been murdered because she was (most likely) preyed upon by a predatory paedophile - shifting the blame for that fact upon her parents failings is perverse in the extreme. Events like this are incredibly extreme and no one could have foreseen the tragic outcome that unfolded. The lack of humility and empathy around not only their tragic loss, but the fact that they have been erroneously blamed for her death is staggering.
 
What nonsense, I'm sorry. A child has been murdered because she was (most likely) preyed upon by a predatory paedophile - shifting the blame for that fact upon her parents failings is perverse in the extreme. Events like this are incredibly extreme and no one could have foreseen the tragic outcome that unfolded. The lack of humility and empathy around not only their tragic loss, but the fact that they have been erroneously blamed for her death is staggering.
We will call it part blame but yes they have a massive hand in it, they neglected their children you cannot deny that, they will live with it and suffer for it, my sympathy is with Maddie and the rest of her family, the parents are selfish, neglectful and should rightfully live in regret and shame.
 
What nonsense, I'm sorry. A child has been murdered because she was (most likely) preyed upon by a predatory paedophile - shifting the blame for that fact upon her parents failings is perverse in the extreme. Events like this are incredibly extreme and no one could have foreseen the tragic outcome that unfolded. The lack of humility and empathy around not only their tragic loss, but the fact that they have been erroneously blamed for her death is staggering.

That’s like leaving your front door unlocked being robbed and shifting the blame away on the one thing that could have prevented it, locking your door

I agree with the sentiment that we all make mistakes and we have to live with those mistakes.

Parents have to take some blame in what happened, they could have prevented it
 
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This is an awful tragic case but the reality is not every case has 11million pounds devoted to it.

I’m not commenting on any guilt or innocence or about details of the case I’m just referring to parity with similar cases.

I saw an interview from an official based at the British consulate and he went on record to say that they received calls from London to say that there was to be no limit on how much they could spend on this matter and 11million pound later it looks like he was telling the truth.

the sad reality for many this would have been a lost cause long ago. I just don’t understand the almost limitless resources we have used when other cases have been spare a fraction of this.

why ?
 
That’s like leaving your front door unlocked being robbed and shifting the blame on the one thing that could have prevented it, locking your door

I agree with the sentiment that we all make mistakes and we have to live with those mistakes.

Parents have to take some blame in what happened, they could have prevented it
Comparing this to being burgled, after leaving your door open, is churlish - the odds of each event happening are so wildly different its an irrelevant point.

I don't agree with what they did, its not something I would have done, but I'm sure the guilt they live with has eaten away at them, day-in, day-out, since.

I get that people are at odds with leaving her alone, I am too, but the tragedy they have suffered , regardless of whether it may have contributed to it, absolutely outweighs this.

In the vast majority of child abuse cases parents or carers actions could, and sometimes should, have been different and in some way contributed to the act.

Its like blaming a woman for being drunk and wearing a short skirt as a cause for being raped.
 
This is an awful tragic case but the reality is not every case has 11million pounds devoted to it.

I saw an interview from an official based at the British consulate and he went on record to say that they received calls from London to say that there was to be no limit on how much they could spend on this matter and 11million pound later it looks like he was telling the truth.

the sad reality for many this would have been a lost cause long ago. I just don’t understand the almost limitless resources we have used when other cases have been spare a fraction of this.

why ?
Baffles me aswell, also baffles me why they were never charged with neglect.
 
Comparing this to being burgled, after leaving your door open, is churlish - the odds of each event happening are so wildly different its an irrelevant point.

I don't agree with what they did, its not something I would have done, but I'm sure the guilt they live with has eaten away at them, day-in, day-out, since.

I get that people are at odds with leaving her alone, I am too, but the tragedy they have suffered , regardless of whether it may have contributed to it, absolutely outweighs this.

In the vast majority of child abuse cases parents or carers actions could, and sometimes should, have been different and in some way contributed to the act.

Its like blaming a woman for being drunk and wearing a short skirt as a cause for being raped.

The women isn’t neglecting herself, the parents neglected their children
 
The point is, the only real blame in this case should only be towards the person who abducted and murdered her.
He should hang until he is dead you are right there but all guilty parties should be punished and the McCann's are guilty of serious neglect
 
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