The end?

zzzzz said:
A bear backed into a corner is a very dangerous thing.
He is mad enough to go up a notch.
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None of the military top brass are keen on being toast.
They have openly fallen out with Putin recently, which is why you are seeing what you are seeing.
And, given that the nuclear arsenal has been poorly maintained, like the rest of the army's equipment, there's no guaranteeing that it will leave the bunker even if the buttons are pressed.

Here's hoping eh.
 
borolad259 said:
None of the military top brass are keen on being toast.
They have openly fallen out with Putin recently, which is why you are seeing what you are seeing.
And, given that the nuclear arsenal has been poorly maintained, like the rest of the army's equipment, there's no guaranteeing that it will leave the bunker even if the buttons are pressed.

Here's hoping eh.
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Still waiting here
 
borolad259 said:
There are images on twitter right now of streets blocked off, but no indication why or by whom. Apparently no-one knows what the 11th intend, why they are there. They aren't communicating as far as I understand it. I don't think they are there to celebrate.
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the big Q is were they ordered there by Putin because he's doubleing down on his authoritarianism, or fears a coup, and he needs them to protect him and maintain order, or are they ordered by powerful people to depose Putin.
 
BoroMart said:
the big Q is were they ordered there by Putin because he's doubleing down on his authoritarianism, or fears a coup, and he needs them to protect him and maintain order, or are they ordered by powerful people to depose Putin.
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The orange garbage trucks blocking off the city wee there as part of the city celebration parade (which,amusingly, involved a version of swan lake in blue and yallow). The significant and odd stuff is the footage of troop carriers with the V logo in the city, blocking the ring road. In the Russian military, V, as I understand it, denotes naval forces. This would tie in with the story of the Kalingrad based 11th Amphibious division who left Kharkiv (leaving it open for the rapid advance of thje Ukraine military) intent on taking on Putin. From this point on is my conjecture. They are there, but it's Moscow's big annual celebration. Putin ain't there, but lots of happy Moscovites are enjoying themselves. Maybe, being the best that the Russian military has, they are laying low. I dunno. There's definitely a change happening in that legislators are calling for Putin's head and the propogandist media is acknowledging defeats fr the first time. Who knows, but service is definitely not normal.
 
Boroboyyo said:
I would love Putin to be removed . The only way I can see civil unrest though is if :

- Russia declares war and forces general mobilisation .
- Russia is completely removed from Ukraine

We have to remember is their government owns the media . Any pull back can be spinner any way they want

Kharkiv seems to be very bad for Russia .But donbas and Kherson oblast might pose a different challenge
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Winter is coming. With western sanctions on Russia, it'll make food and supplies those troops in Donbas and Kherson short of what is needed, their old equipment will be temperamental, the troops away from home in the frozen fields demoralised. If Kharkiv is reclaimed then all attention will turn to Donbas and Kherson, and the Ukrainians won't be demoralised, will have modern equipment, will be emboldened by the desire to reclaim their land and expel the invader, supported by european and american supplies. It'll be a very, very bad winter for russian soldiers. I wouldn't be surprised to see the russians massively retreat to the most eastern parts of ukraine and try and hold Crimea as their primary concerns. Further withdrawl will put real political pressure on Putin at home.
 
In a couple of weeks the lend lease programme kicks in. That means the Ukraine becomes much better equipped. Putin seemed to have a fetish for Kharkiv, but the real red line for them is Crimea. I'd be surprised if that isn't where it all ends, with agreement or otherwise.
 
borolad259 said:
In a couple of weeks the lend lease programme kicks in. That means the Ukraine becomes much better equipped. Putin seemed to have a fetish for Kharkiv, but the real red line for them is Crimea. I'd be surprised if that isn't where it all ends, with agreement or otherwise.
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Hopefully Putin will be dead by the time Crimea is liberated - and hopefully both will be very soon
Be good if Putin sees that illegal bridge blown up first though
 
TeessideCleveland said:
Hopefully Putin will be dead by the time Crimea is liberated - and hopefully both will be very soon
Be good if Putin sees that illegal bridge blown up first though
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He's in Sochi. His family have all left Russia (his daughter is his physician.... she treats his piles). The 11th are in Moscow but they aren't interested in power themselves I don't think, but I think Putin will stay away. There's a power vaccuum at the moment. There are various contenders for the "throne" .... several in exile, at least one in prison (he's a fascist so I hope he stays there), the turd in charge of Belarus has a claim and there's the Moscow Mayor, who would probably be best from a peace point of view. It will be an interesting few days. As for Medvedev, who was once considered to be a liberal technocrat ... he has spent the last few years pretending to be more nationalistic and hawkish than Putin (presumably to save himself from defenestration).
 
No pictures to back it up but Guardian saying

'On Saturday, as the disastrous news from the front trickled through, Putin was busy opening a huge observation wheel in a Moscow park as part of celebrations for Moscow Day. Military bloggers sharply criticised him for going ahead with the celebrations.'

www.theguardian.com

Putin loyalist Kadyrov criticises Russian army’s performance over Ukraine retreat

Ramzan Kadyrov, Kremlin-appointed Chechnya leader, suggests Putin might not be fully aware of true state of affairs
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
If they lose Crimea, they lose their navy base, Syria and their southern coast round Sochi etc is totally vulnerable.
Best bit of dark soil in the world in Ukraine soon to be covered in GM, Monsanto and chemicals if the Yanks get their way, shame.
 
TeessideCleveland said:
Lots calling for them to push on and neutralise Belgorod on there
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No way will they venture into Russia. Not only will support dissipate but there is a greater danger of being nuked in that scenario . Russia use of nuclear weapons states they will use if the Russian federation is attacked . I imagine they could get away with the outskirts , but it’s not worth the risk . Plus there is higher chance russia will be more open to declaring war. Putin would if he could , because he would want the opportunity to throw more men at the problem with general mobilisation. He is in danger of a coup if he does that just to attack Ukraine though

It’s why all that b***ks coming from Putin about nato is just that , b***ks. The prime time to have invaded would have been 1991 if they wanted, yet they never did
 
Does anyone else think that if Putin where to lose or about to lose Crimea he would do something even more horrific than he already has.

I`m not sure he`d use a nuke but could he make it a wasteland in another way?

In an ideal world I hope Putin is replaced and the new leader withdraws Russian troops from Ukraine (which includes it`s Crimean territory), not sure i`m wishful thinking or that scenario is even possible
 
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