Tesla exposed

[Andy_W]

However, I am lucky if I do 3000 miles a year, so I'm offsetting that to some degree. I can see the benefits of an EV, but as a buyer right now, I find them too bland and a bit of a one trick pony (speed). I've driven a couple of Tesla's and an iPace (lovely interior) and I wasn't overly enamoured with them. I do think EV's are the stopgap until we resolve hydrogen containment. Having to mine all those rare earth minerals for EV's among other things does damage to the landscape and that has to be considered alongside the CO2 emissions of production.

3000 miles isn't a lot, a know some 50+ year olds cycling twice that amount in a year You would be better off getting a taxi, rather than owning a car, especially not a new one, the depreciation/ cost per mile on that must be mental.

For me I got a car worth twice the value, more tech and better performance, for the same yearly cost as a car nowhere near as good, nice, or performance etc, but you need to do a certain amount of miles to make it worthwhile, for me it was about 12k, but I got a good deal. If you don't do the miles you never get the EV gains, but still suffer the purchase price.

Hydrogen is possibly the future (distant future) unless better batteries get there first. A major problem for hydrogen is in how it's moved, hydrogen pipelines would be a nightmare, that's coming from someone that installs pipelines. The safety/ cost/ tech required to do it would be ridiculous. It just wouldn't get started. A hydrogen pipe cost about 20x what a water pipe would to install. So it would be back to trucks, which is a massive waste of energy, and how far away is a realistic value truck running on hydrogen? 20-30 years? Within 5 years EV might be outselling ICE, and definitely, in the more developed world, so the biggest problem hydrogen will face is it will be being compared to EV's not ICE's, as by the time hydrogen is ready and able most of the ICE cars will have gone (in the developed world), and all EV's will be running on renewable energy, and will have another 10 years of development.

 

[BoroMart]

Electric does come out of thin air, via wind, if you want it to, and you can add solar to that too I suppose. America will start to understand this soon, hopefully. Again the USA is the problem (and it's people, like this guy), not the car/ tech.

The US has such a strange relation with cars. The whole muscle car scene, nascar, indy 500, monster trucks, CAT, John Deere, Harley-Davidson etc.......bigger, faster, dirtier, louder. They've been this way for a long time. Movies that sold the idea of americana being young guys gaining their manhood by driving their 1950 chevy, it's a pschye thing.

On top of that there are some very influential, very rich people in the fossil fuel business. Texan oil barons, west virginia coal mine owners, these are the people that want to maintain that white picket fence, gun totting, hamburger munching world that made them rich, and are in utter denial about the impact of fossil fuels. They lobby, and pay PR firms to attack new technologies, they even had a president stand up and claim that wind farms give people cancer, that's how corrupt and ridiculous they are. I would not be surprised if this guy is on the payroll of some PR firm, fed lines and told to present it a bit amateurish so he doesn't look like a corporate but a concerned citizen who is 'in the know'.

No one claims that EVs aren't the complete answer, but they are part of the solution, in america the adoption of Solar, wind and water power is the biggest challenge. The south has great opportunity to generate massive amounts of solar power and places like california have bought into it, but the rest of the country needs to adopt more.

 

[Andy_W]

There’s no one solution which will lead us into a better place in terms of the environment— not least the whole stigma on EV. The pace of demand for progress both in technology and non-technologies make us far more vulnerable as a society due in part or the constant rhetoric by governments and the marketing arms of these EV companies. The claims by governments to be carbon neutral by 2040 or whatever is IMO somewhat far-fetched. In California (and across to US) for instance they still run diesel trains and don’t plan to replace them so what is the real agenda here? I mean the whole stigma on EV is basically down to getting people to use more electricity perhaps? Ok in certain locations we could just plug the vehicle into a solar panel and charge but of course many don’t have that luxury so it would be like taking from Peter to rob Paul if you plug into the grid to recharge. There’s a long way to go but if we think that our reliance on fossil fuels will be over in 10 years think again.

I think the USA is a bad example, especially with them just coming off the back of having Trump in power. By the time he tries again or some other clown comes back in 4 years, the USA will have moved with the times a little more, albeit not as fast as Europe. 2040 carbon neutral is pipe dream, but it's better aiming for that and hitting it in 2045, than saying 2060 and hitting it in 2065.

The plug in the wall will be powered by solar/ wind or whatever, it doesn't need to be from your roof, but that would be a bonus, but this is down to the governments and individuals. We don't seem to be too far away from getting shot of coal. We're about 1% now, and were 25% 5 years ago. Others just need to do what we're doing or better it. The biggest problem is the developing countries, they will develop and they will use the cheapest easiest thing to do it, and we can't criticise as we did the same. It's fine saying they should use renewables, but they won't have the capital for the initial outlay, it's just not going to happen. I can see there being some major conflicts about this is 10 years time or so.

The thing is Europe and the USA is about a billion people, and what of the rest is developed enough to care, another billion? That's probably less than a 1/3rd of the world trying to reduce carbon, which is bad, but the other 2/3 don't use as much per head (so it is critical). The thing is, that 2/3 is developing, and it's demand/ output will skyrocket. Any savings by the developed will likely get crushed by the developing.

 

[BaronSmoggie]

3000 miles isn't a lot, a know some 50+ year olds cycling twice that amount in a year You would be better off getting a taxi, rather than owning a car, especially not a new one, the depreciation/ cost per mile on that must be mental.

For me I got a car worth twice the value, more tech and better performance, for the same yearly cost as a car nowhere near as good, nice, or performance etc, but you need to do a certain amount of miles to make it worthwhile, for me it was about 12k, but I got a good deal. If you don't do the miles you never get the EV gains, but still suffer the purchase price.

Hydrogen is possibly the future (distant future) unless better batteries get there first. A major problem for hydrogen is in how it's moved, hydrogen pipelines would be a nightmare, that's coming from someone that installs pipelines. The safety/ cost/ tech required to do it would be ridiculous. It just wouldn't get started. A hydrogen pipe cost about 20x what a water pipe would to install. So it would be back to trucks, which is a massive waste of energy, and how far away is a realistic value truck running on hydrogen? 20-30 years? Within 5 years EV might be outselling ICE, and definitely, in the more developed world, so the biggest problem hydrogen will face is it will be being compared to EV's not ICE's, as by the time hydrogen is ready and able most of the ICE cars will have gone (in the developed world), and all EV's will be running on renewable energy, and will have another 10 years of development.

I get your point. My car owes me less than 10K, it costs less than 500 quid a year to insure, its taxed for 300 odd quid a year and owes me about the same per year in maintenance. I couldn't justify spending 40,50,60K on an EV for the miles I do.

Interesting on the pipeline cost, didn't realise it was that high. I do think at some point in the future because of the climate, we are going to have to say, cost be damned, else their won't be a future for us.

 

[JustTheGent]

 

[SmallTown]

Jealous and sad he may be but you've got to give old Genty points for persistence. He's ignoring the adults having a conversation and continuously posting the seemingly single YouTube poster who rants similar views to him.

I think it's a shame when people are jealous and have to attempt to knock the thing they can't have. I take a different approach, I admire the things I can't have.

 

[SmallTown]

I get your point. My car owes me less than 10K, it costs less than 500 quid a year to insure, its taxed for 300 odd quid a year and owes me about the same per year in maintenance. I couldn't justify spending 40,50,60K on an EV for the miles I do.

Interesting on the pipeline cost, didn't realise it was that high. I do think at some point in the future because of the climate, we are going to have to say, cost be damned, else their won't be a future for us.

I guess you need a premium car? Because if you want a standard car then you'd be paying way less than 40k. You can even get a Tesla for less than that.

 

[BoroMart]

Jealous and sad he may be but you've got to give old Genty points for persistence. He's ignoring the adults having a conversation and continuously posting the seemingly single YouTube poster who rants similar views to him.

I think it's a shame when people are jealous and have to attempt to knock the thing they can't have. I take a different approach, I admire the things I can't have.

it'd be better if he put his own opinions and thoughts rather than just posting someone elses.

 

[SmallTown]

it'd be better if he put his own opinions and thoughts rather than just posting someone elses.

I'm not so sure it would

You're right though he could probably regain some of the dignity he's losing

 

[BaronSmoggie]

I guess you need a premium car? Because if you want a standard car then you'd be paying way less than 40k. You can even get a Tesla for less than that.

No, not at all. But I need a family car that has space to take all the stuff that goes with having a young child.

Cheapest Model 3 starts at £40,990
Cheapest Polestar 2 starts at £39,990
Cheapest iPace starts at £65,245

Now, because I am not looking to change vehicles, I'm not fully au fait with all the available models, and the pricing is taken from each manufacturers website directly. But, I'm not wrong when I say its 40 - 60K for an EV.

 

[BoroMart]

No, not at all. But I need a family car that has space to take all the stuff that goes with having a young child.

Cheapest Model 3 starts at £40,990
Cheapest Polestar 2 starts at £39,990
Cheapest iPace starts at £65,245

Now, because I am not looking to change vehicles, I'm not fully au fait with all the available models, and the pricing is taken from each manufacturers website directly. But, I'm not wrong when I say its 40 - 60K for an EV.

Hyundai Ioniq £30,550
MG 5 £25,095
Peugeot e-2008 £33,230
Kia e-niro £32,845

There are other options, I'm sure it won't have the bells and whistles of a Tes/Jag/Polestar, and I have no idea of the quality, but you can get a new family size EV from 25k now. Even if the MG isn't any good, lets say 30k

 

[BaronSmoggie]

Hyundai Ioniq £30,550
MG 5 £25,095
Peugeot e-2008 £33,230
Kia e-niro £32,845

There are other options, I'm sure it won't have the bells and whistles of a Tes/Jag/Polestar, and I have no idea of the quality, but you can get a new family size EV from 25k now. Even if the MG isn't any good, lets say 30k

Fair enough, like I said, I'm not looking for a new car and haven't researched the EV market.

 

[JustTheGent]

BaronSmog - these electric vehicles are for people who like throwing their money away. For the average person who wants a reasonable vehicle at a good value price - AVOID them. Whether or not electric vehicles have a future - who knows? But at the moment the market they exist in isn't particularly good for the environment and the infrastructure doesn't exist to accommodate them in any significant number.

Yes, you'll get people on here trying to justify them. That's because they probably have one or are thinking about buying (probably borrowing) one. Furthermore, if you're planning on keeping a car for a long time - beware! If the battery goes you're talking thousands and thousands of pounds to replace it and they can fail more than once. General repairs will also cost much more. Turn up at your regular mechanic and they'll likely tell you to take it to the dealership...and watch those costs mount up.

Here's a bit of advice if you want good value. Buy a vehicle 3-5 years old from a Car Supermarket. Some of them are quite close to auction prices and they come with a guarantee. Some firms let you return the car at no cost after 7-14 days if you change your mind. Also, if you're not that bothered about what's in trend, you can get even more value by staying away from crossovers and SUVs. Some authorised dealers can be reasonable value but some are way overpriced. Quality wise, the best buys are generally Toyota, Honda and Mazda, Lexus at higher price for some increased luxury. Skoda, VW and Volvo can be okay as well but it's best to do some research and it depends what your budget is. Less fashionable MPV and estate vehicles can be 30-40% cheaper than similar spec crossovers. They can be a much better drive as well. Stay away from BMW, Mercedes, Audi or Land Rover unless you don't mind the possibility and inevitability of big repair bills. These vehicles DON'T hold up over time and this is backed up by lots of evidence. And lastly, Tesla vehicles look like any other car and cost a fortune. One of my neighbours has one and I didn't even know it was a Tesla. I just presumed it was any one of a number of standard car brands.

 

[BaronSmoggie]

BaronSmog - these electric vehicles are for people who like throwing their money away. For the average person who wants a reasonable vehicle at a good value price - AVOID them. Whether or not electric vehicles have a future - who knows? But at the moment the market they exist in isn't particularly good for the environment and the infrastructure doesn't exist to accommodate them in any significant number.

Maybe, like I said, I'm not in the market. I'm not an early adopter type, I'd rather wait until the market evolves.

Yes, you'll get people on here trying to justify them. That's because they probably have one or are thinking about buying (probably borrowing) one. Furthermore, if you're planning on keeping a car for a long time - beware! If the battery goes you're talking thousands and thousands of pounds to replace it and they can fail more than once. General repairs will also cost much more. Turn up at your regular mechanic and they'll likely tell you to take it to the dealership...and watch those costs mount up.

People are entitled to have opinions, some like and can bear the cost of EV's. You and I, not so much. Maintenance costs will come down as the tech becomes more ubiquitous.

Here's a bit of advice if you want good value. Buy a vehicle 3-5 years old from a Car Supermarket. Some of them are quite close to auction prices and they come with a guarantee. Some firms let you return the car at no cost after 7-14 days if you change your mind. Also, if you're not that bothered about what's in trend, you can get even more value by staying away from crossovers and SUVs. Some authorised dealers can be reasonable value but some are way overpriced. Quality wise, the best buys are generally Toyota, Honda and Mazda, Lexus at higher price for some increased luxury. Skoda, VW and Volvo can be okay as well but it's best to do some research and it depends what your budget is. Less fashionable MPV and estate vehicles can be 30-40% cheaper than similar spec crossovers. They can be a much better drive as well. Stay away from BMW, Mercedes, Audi or Land Rover unless you don't mind the possibility and inevitability of big repair bills. These vehicles DON'T hold up over time and this is backed up by lots of evidence. And lastly, Tesla vehicles look like any other car and cost a fortune. One of my neighbours has one and I didn't even know it was a Tesla. I just presumed it was any one of a number of standard car brands.

Thats bloody awful advice. Why would I want to buy from a Car Supermarket and put myself through that salesman patter to buy an overpriced, under specced lump of junk? I'm an old school petrolhead and I know what I like. As of right now, I like comfort, toys and waftability. To that end I own an 11 year old BMW F10 535i and I love it. Its a rear drive 6 cylinder and it has character and a good engine noise. That's important to me.

I'm also on the lookout for an Aston Martin DB9 in a very particular spec and I've only seen two in the last 6 months. One of the joys of being a permanent home worker is that I can indulge my car passion and owning 18 cylinders worth of metal is my way of keeping sane. I don't begrudge anyones life choices. In all honesty, EV's aren't for me at the moment and I don't look at cars in a monthly cost, economy kind of way. They are there to put a smile on my face and make me feel good about myself.

 

[Randy]

Maybe, like I said, I'm not in the market. I'm not an early adopter type, I'd rather wait until the market evolves.

People are entitled to have opinions, some like and can bear the cost of EV's. You and I, not so much. Maintenance costs will come down as the tech becomes more ubiquitous.

Thats bloody awful advice. Why would I want to buy from a Car Supermarket and put myself through that salesman patter to buy an overpriced, under specced lump of junk? I'm an old school petrolhead and I know what I like. As of right now, I like comfort, toys and waftability. To that end I own an 11 year old BMW F10 535i and I love it. Its a rear drive 6 cylinder and it has character and a good engine noise. That's important to me.

I'm also on the lookout for an Aston Martin DB9 in a very particular spec and I've only seen two in the last 6 months. One of the joys of being a permanent home worker is that I can indulge my car passion and owning 18 cylinders worth of metal is my way of keeping sane. I don't begrudge anyones life choices. In all honesty, EV's aren't for me at the moment and I don't look at cars in a monthly cost, economy kind of way. They are there to put a smile on my face and make me feel good about myself.

F10? Lovely piece of kit. I'm not really a BMW fan but I'd love to own an M5 one day, specifically a 2015 model.

 

[BaronSmoggie]

F10? Lovely piece of kit. I'm not really a BMW fan but I'd love to own an M5 one day, specifically a 2015 model.

Cheers. If I ever do replace the Beemer, it would be with another 5 series, and like you, an M5, plus 6K and straight to Evolve Automotive for their 800bhp tune.

 

[BoroMart]

BaronSmog - these electric vehicles are for people who like throwing their money away.

what business is it of yours what people spend their hard earned on? If people enjoy modern tech who are you to say that's a waste and as a company car they're cheap as chips right now?

For the average person who wants a reasonable vehicle at a good value price - AVOID them.

As I pointed out above you can get family EVs from 25k, with the lifetime cost savings they can be far cheaper, as already stated.

But at the moment the market they exist in isn't particularly good for the environment and the infrastructure doesn't exist to accommodate them in any significant number.

See above

Here's a bit of advice if you want good value. Buy a vehicle 3-5 years old from a Car Supermarket. Some of them are quite close to auction prices and they come with a guarantee.

Tesla has a 7 year warranty on teh batteries, you won't get that warranty on a car engine or a guarentee from a car supermarket

That's because they probably have one or are thinking about buying (probably borrowing) one.

why do you assuming people are borrowing? and what if they are, people get PCP on petrol cars too

Furthermore, if you're planning on keeping a car for a long time - beware! If the battery goes you're talking thousands and thousands of pounds to replace it and they can fail more than once.

7 year warranty, I'll sell well before that

General repairs will also cost much more.

It's the opposite because there are so few moving parts, there are no oil changes, the brake pads last years, the advantages go on, and on.

Turn up at your regular mechanic and they'll likely tell you to take it to the dealership...and watch those costs mount up.

That can happen for many modern cars, as soon as you want anything outside of a panel replaced, an MOT, new tires or an oil change. All modern cars have sophisticated engine management systems and electrics that only the manufacturer network can deal with. Like I said, you don't need oil changes, and those other regular things any mechanic can repair.

These vehicles DON'T hold up over time and this is backed up by lots of evidence.

The opposite actually, they hold value very well, check the book price of used teslas or other EVs, you'l be surprised.

And lastly, Tesla vehicles look like any other car and cost a fortune.

Well that's your choice and subjective, if you think a Tesla is like a 4 year old kia then fine. I doubt many will agree with you though, it's all just sounding a bit bitter now

 

[Randy]

Cheers. If I ever do replace the Beemer, it would be with another 5 series, and like you, an M5, plus 6K and straight to Evolve Automotive for their 800bhp tune.

Great video.

 

[JustTheGent]

No, not at all. But I need a family car that has space to take all the stuff that goes with having a young child.

I'm an old school petrolhead and I know what I like. As of right now, I like comfort, toys and waftability. To that end I own an 11 year old BMW F10 535i and I love it. Its a rear drive 6 cylinder and it has character and a good engine noise. That's important to me.

I'm also on the lookout for an Aston Martin DB9 in a very particular spec and I've only seen two in the last 6 months.

People are entitled to have opinions, some like and can bear the cost of EV's. You and I, not so much.

Absolutely, that's what I'm doing

 

[SmallTown]

No, not at all. But I need a family car that has space to take all the stuff that goes with having a young child.

Cheapest Model 3 starts at £40,990
Cheapest Polestar 2 starts at £39,990
Cheapest iPace starts at £65,245

Now, because I am not looking to change vehicles, I'm not fully au fait with all the available models, and the pricing is taken from each manufacturers website directly. But, I'm not wrong when I say its 40 - 60K for an EV.

Again you are looking at premium cars.
Try the hyundai Kona or the Kie e soul. You can't say "electric cars are too expensive " then only quote prices for the expensive ones. So yes, you are wrong when you say its 40-60k for an EV when it blatantly isn't true.