Tadej Pogacar

Steer said:
There are two ways of looking at it - agreed.

But the number of lauded winners in cycling that were subsequently caught out is huge. The subsequently part of that is important, and who here truly believes that the superstars that are doing really well in grand tours etc will not be disgraced / banned / humiliated at some point in the future?
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We don't of course but the same can be said for the stars of tennis, motor racing, etc etc. Just because of the fact that so few in some sports have been caught is more a reflection of lack of rigorous testing rather than lack of an issue in my opinion.
 
Steer said:
There are two ways of looking at it - agreed.

But the number of lauded winners in cycling that were subsequently caught out is huge. The subsequently part of that is important, and who here truly believes that the superstars that are doing really well in grand tours etc will not be disgraced / banned / humiliated at some point in the future?
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Not sure that is true in recent times. Lance's last Tour win was 17 years ago this summer. Since then only Landis and Contador have been banned for violations, the latest being Contador is 2010. That's 12 years ago. These guys are entwined with Lance anyway.

I have a particular interest in doping in cycling and sport in general and would be quite happy to stand up and say that modern cycling is cleaner than most top flight sports. And by top flight I mean football, rugby (which has a real problem atm), tennis, athletics etc

Other sports simply do not test as much as the could / should. But the money is too big now.

In football if they popped a superstar the club could bankrupt UKAD in the courts before any meaningful outcome could be decided. I'd also imagine the fans have no desire to be testing players more often at the risk of players being banned. Wenger has spoken out about what football is like. We all know about players receiving 'injections' to help them play.

Cycling fans and cycling itself wanted cycling cleaned up so there was an appetite there. There is no other such appetite in other sports, even in athletics, for such a widespread testing regime.

A few years ago I blogged about this - I found that in the 3 weeks of the TdF there was more doping tests carried out than in the whole of the Premier League in a season. That is staggering but shows that in reality other sports don't really care about it.

If you don't look for a problem there isn't a problem.
 
Having said all that, do you not get alarm bells going off in your head when you see a rider that can out-climb specialist climbers, out-time Trial specialist time trialists and out-sprint sprinters?
 
Steer said:
Having said all that, do you not get alarm bells going off in your head when you see a rider that can out-climb specialist climbers, out-time Trial specialist time trialists and out-sprint sprinters?
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Prime example Wout Van Aert
 
Steer said:
Having said all that, do you not get alarm bells going off in your head when you see a rider that can out-climb specialist climbers, out-time Trial specialist time trialists and out-sprint sprinters?
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Personally? No, because, assuming you are alluding WVA or maybe Alaphillipe, these riders may pull out superb performances across multiple disciplines, but there is the peaks and troughs expected. Take WVA at Paris-Nice, amazing performances but lost lots of time the day after a huge TT result.

During the doping era, it was the ability for riders to perform day in day out producing ungodly performances that pointed more to doping practices.
 
Steer said:
Having said all that, do you not get alarm bells going off in your head when you see a rider that can out-climb specialist climbers, out-time Trial specialist time trialists and out-sprint sprinters?
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No, as they don't do it 5 days in a row. You see it when they struggle.

I presume you mean Wout Van Aert. I watched a few races last year when Mathieu van der Poel destroyed him. Could he win a Tour? Maybe, maybe not. It totally depends on the team. In Grand Tours it's not one rider on one day.
 
Surely riders who dope realise that they must manage how it looks from the outside (learning from past events). I can't help but question if they are actually struggling or if it's all part of the facade?
 
ini_chester said:
Surely riders who dope realise that they must manage how it looks from the outside (learning from past events). I can't help but question if they are actually struggling or if it's all part of the facade?
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It's possible, but history has shown zero examples of it.

If you have the mentality that you are going to cheat to win at all costs, I don't believe you have it in your locker to "hold back" when you could actually win to maintain a realistic performance curve
 
Doping has been part of cycling history since the very first TDF, and will continue to be whilst it's so hard and there's glory and money for winners.

To me it's just part of what makes it the greatest sport on earth, with nor real logic on who emerges from history as a hero and others name are mud - why is Pantani worshiped but Armstrong hated as an example (rhetorical question, I know the answer, but it's just one of the great contradictions of cycling - we want a clean sport, but also want day to day action especially on a 3 week GT).
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Personally? No, because, assuming you are alluding WVA or maybe Alaphillipe, these riders may pull out superb performances across multiple disciplines, but there is the peaks and troughs expected. Take WVA at Paris-Nice, amazing performances but lost lots of time the day after a huge TT result.

During the doping era, it was the ability for riders to perform day in day out producing ungodly performances that pointed more to doping practices.
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True in what your saying about consistency, but does it explain how WVA had Roglic hanging on his wheel for grim death up Col d'Eze yesterday? Also he held Simon Yates(pure climber) to 25 to 30 secs(up the climb) and in all honesty could have dropped Roglic. There's over 2 stone in weight difference between them he's some machine.
 
PGtips said:
True in what your saying about consistency, but does it explain how WVA had Roglic hanging on his wheel for grim death up Col d'Eze yesterday? Also he held Simon Yates(pure climber) to 25 to 30 secs(up the climb) and in all honesty could have dropped Roglic. There's over 2 stone in weight difference between them he's some machine.
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Van Aert and Roglic are on the same team. You appear to be suggesting WVA is doping and grinding his teammate into the dust.

My curiosity with all this - and TPs Strade Bianche performance was beyond belief is why they are choosing to rip every race up now and not just peaking for the GTs.
 
Zoophonic said:
Van Aert and Roglic are on the same team. You appear to be suggesting WVA is doping and grinding his teammate into the dust.

My curiosity with all this - and TPs Strade Bianche performance was beyond belief is why they are choosing to rip every race up now and not just peaking for the GTs.
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No I’m saying climbing is generally genetics and power to weight ratio but he dragged roglic up that climb basically and along the way dropped another mountain goat Quintana my point was he’s over 2 stone heavier but WVA looked like the GC rider and he held Yates at 25 seconds. I don’t know what he’s doing but it’s good.
 
PGtips said:
No I’m saying climbing is generally genetics and power to weight ratio but he dragged roglic up that climb basically and along the way dropped another mountain goat Quintana my point was he’s over 2 stone heavier but WVA looked like the GC rider and he held Yates at 25 seconds. I don’t know what he’s doing but it’s good.
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The concerns and suspicions will only grow. We have Jumbo Visma ( Roglic, Vinnegaard, WVA), UAE ( Pogacar and McNulty) and then we have Bahrain Mereda ( Mohoric, Bauhaus, Bilbao) who all won stages this week and spotlight will be on them.
 
Tour of Flanders now getting to the interesting stage. Just seen TP ride up the Oude de Kwarmont and destroy the peloton.
 
I completely respect and admire the athletic ability to ride those distances and inclines, but is cycling really free from drug enhanced performance? That taints it a bit in my opinion.
 
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