Supreme Court ruling on Scot ref - Scottish govt does NOT have right to hold another referendum

Priv

Well-known member
I think this is grasping at straws. They got 45% in the actual 2014 referendum, the SNP seem to get ~45% in many elections since, I think it's fair to say their voters are broadly supportive of independence.
Not from the comments I was reading regarding that court decision, many were saying exactly that. I also work very closely with a Scottish company that has about 60 staff across the central belt and another 20 or so up around Aberdeen, the general consensus from them is anger that shes hijacked the Scottish flag to be used for division and hate to the point many don’t want to wave it for Football or rugby matches anymore as they don’t want to be associated with them and they also call Sturgeon the poison dwarf.
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
Not from the comments I was reading regarding that court decision, many were saying exactly that. I also work very closely with a Scottish company that has about 60 staff across the central belt and another 20 or so up around Aberdeen, the general consensus from them is anger that shes hijacked the Scottish flag to be used for division and hate to the point many don’t want to wave it for Football or rugby matches anymore as they don’t want to be associated with them and they also call Sturgeon the poison dwarf.

I suppose I just don't really buy that you've asked 80 separate people at your work for their political opinions. I know I haven't talked politics to as many as that at my work. And even if you have, if 55 people in the central office are calling Sturgeon the poison dwarf, are the other 5 going to be confident enough to speak up if they disagree?

This is the trouble with anecdotal stuff. Who knows what you've actually heard from how many. Maybe you only remember the people with a strong reaction and forget anyone who says they can take or leave SNP/Sturgeon.
 

Priv

Well-known member
I suppose I just don't really buy that you've asked 80 separate people at your work for their political opinions. I know I haven't talked politics to as many as that at my work. And even if you have, if 55 people in the central office are calling Sturgeon the poison dwarf, are the other 5 going to be confident enough to speak up if they disagree?

This is the trouble with anecdotal stuff. Who knows what you've actually heard from how many. Maybe you only remember the people with a strong reaction and forget anyone who says they can take or leave SNP/Sturgeon.
I haven’t asked 80 individuals I don’t need to they all love to say how much they hate her and her politics, I found it quite surprising and it was certainly unexpected to me as ike you I thought they were universally loved up there.

Quite frankly I don’t care if you believe me or not, think I’m exaggerating or making it up. I spent a lot of time up there, I’m there all next week as well so will be interesting to hear the late sets after the court decisions. I’m just saying what I hear as well as what I read: you can Love sturgeon and her politics as much as you want it doesn’t mean everyone up there still does. I think they are starting to haemorrhage voters. We won’t know for sure until the next election.
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
as ike you I thought they were universally loved up there.
you can Love sturgeon and her politics as much as you want it doesn’t mean everyone up there still does.

See there you go. Go back through the thread. I haven't said I love Sturgeon or her politics. I haven't said the SNP are universally loved in Scotland. If you can't keep track of what people are saying when it's written down on a message board, how is your recollection of what all these colleagues are saying to you meant to be reliable?
 

Priv

Well-known member
See there you go. Go back through the thread. I haven't said I love Sturgeon or her politics. I haven't said the SNP are universally loved in Scotland. If you can't keep track of what people are saying when it's written down on a message board, how is your recollection of what all these colleagues are saying to you meant to be reliable?
Because I spend a week a month up there and chuckle away at what they say about her. Do you want me to get you some written statements when I’m up there next week, will that help you ? How many do you want me to get? Or I could interview them record it and put a link up.

Your the one disbelieving what I’m saying and calling me a liar.

For the record my comments about you loving sturgeon and the snp were meant to be tongue in cheek, a little dig at your staunch defence of them. My memory is perfectly fine.
 
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Jedi boro

Well-known member
I feel I need to clarify a few things no one is saying brave heart led to the snp votes per se as that was clearly the Thatcherite poll tax experiment that forever tainted Scotland’s view of Westminster, that was the catalyst but what I am saying is that it fuelled and continues to fuel this idea that England forced Scotland into a union against their will which just isn’t the case.

What it did do was give them a narrative that they have always been under English oppression ( despite James the first being a Scottish monarch) it feeds into the flower of Scotland style rhetoric and it cleared was a boon to Scottish nationalism.
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
Because I spend a week a month up there and chuckle away at what they say about her. Do you want me to get you some written statements when I’m up there next week, will that help you ? How many do you want me to get? Or I could interview them record it and put a link up.

Your the one disbelieving what I’m saying and calling me a liar.

For the record my comments about you loving sturgeon and the snp were meant to be tongue in cheek, a little dig at your staunch defence of them. My memory is perfectly fine.

Nobodys memory is perfectly fine. That's not how memory works. Everything you remember is filtered through your interpretations and biases. Everything I remember is filtered through my interpretations and biases.

I'm not saying I doubt what you're saying because of something to do with you personally being a liar. I'm saying any workplace its unlikely you'd go around and get every member of staffs opinion on a politician. That would be really weird. And even more unlikely they'd all have the exact same opinion. That's even more weird. Unless there's some important detail you're not telling us :ROFLMAO: do you work for the Conservative party's Scotland office or something?
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
I feel I need to clarify a few things no one is saying brave heart led to the snp votes per se as that was clearly the Thatcherite poll tax experiment that forever tainted Scotland’s view of Westminster

SNP votes 1987 = 416k
Poll Tax = 1989/90
SNP votes 1992 = 629k

At least this time there's an uptick but honestly I don't think the numbers back what you're saying here either Jedi. They got 839k votes in 1974, so if the poll tax was the big turning point why were they not ablevto match those numbers? In 2001 and 2005 they drop back to 464k and 412k votes so by then I don't see how you can claim there's a lasting poll tax effect.
 

ThatFragranceGuy

Well-known member
Not from the comments I was reading regarding that court decision, many were saying exactly that. I also work very closely with a Scottish company that has about 60 staff across the central belt and another 20 or so up around Aberdeen, the general consensus from them is anger that shes hijacked the Scottish flag to be used for division and hate to the point many don’t want to wave it for Football or rugby matches anymore as they don’t want to be associated with them and they also call Sturgeon the poison dwarf.
Didnt you say that was comments on an article? I'd trust that as far as I could throw it these days with the amount that bots and shills get used to influence sway.

to add some balance I work for a Scottish bank and a few people are happy to remain in the UK but majority of people we talk to on calls, team meetings and nights out together seem to want to have their own say. Never heard anyone come out with the poison dwarf thing.
 

Jedi boro

Well-known member
shes hijacked the Scottish flag to be used for division and hate to the point many don’t want to wave it for Football or rugby matches anymore
This was my point comparing her tactics ( not politics) and those of the SNP to how trump GOP tried hijack the us flag.

It ridiculous how she portrays herself as the voice of Scotland.
 

Priv

Well-known member
Nobodys memory is perfectly fine. That's not how memory works. Everything you remember is filtered through your interpretations and biases. Everything I remember is filtered through my interpretations and biases.

I'm not saying I doubt what you're saying because of something to do with you personally being a liar. I'm saying any workplace its unlikely you'd go around and get every member of staffs opinion on a politician. That would be really weird. And even more unlikely they'd all have the exact same opinion. That's even more weird. Unless there's some important detail you're not telling us :ROFLMAO: do you work for the Conservative party's Scotland office or something?
Christ no, I work for a very large Irish owned family engineering business.

I work for one of their English sister companies but also do alot of work in Scotland for and alongside our Scottish sister company (the one in question) -as well. It came up in conversation when our MD (Irish) was with me in a management meeting up there we were talking about impacts of brexit and issues with customs delays and he touched on the chances of Scottish independence in the coming years and not a single one was for it, that surprised me a little but then it likely would be bad for our business so wasn’t entirely surprising but the comments about sturgeon soon started and they were all very negative which really surprised me.

Part of my role is product management so I run a lot of training courses for their staff, initially all of them when we bought the business and I’m involved in the training of new members of staff going forward as well, so get to speak to pretty much all of them. They all seem to want to have a say on brexit (about how stupid it was which I fully agree) but that inevitably leads to a conversation on Scottish independence, now a few like the romanticism of the idea of it but believe it would be a disaster so would vote against but majority were very much against it, with only a couple saying they’d be for it.

Maybe it’s the nature of our business and the demographics of the people in those roles, I don’t know but it’s completely changed my opinion on the matter in the last 18 Months.
 

Priv

Well-known member
Didnt you say that was comments on an article? I'd trust that as far as I could throw it these days with the amount that bots and shills get used to influence sway.

to add some balance I work for a Scottish bank and a few people are happy to remain in the UK but majority of people we talk to on calls, team meetings and nights out together seem to want to have their own say. Never heard anyone come out with the poison dwarf thing.
No two seperate sources

The comments on those voting for the SNP predominantly for freebies rather than independence and some commmers on the flag were from reading comments on a couple of articles.

The opinions on Scottish independence and sturgeon are from colleagues (flag also been mentioned there)
 
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Jedi boro

Well-known member
SNP votes 1987 = 416k
Poll Tax = 1989/90
SNP votes 1992 = 629k

At least this time there's an uptick but honestly I don't think the numbers back what you're saying here either Jedi. They got 839k votes in 1974, so if the poll tax was the big turning point why were they not ablevto match those numbers? In 2001 and 2005 they drop back to 464k and 412k votes so by then I don't see how you can claim there's a lasting poll tax effect.
Yes your right I’m saying the poll tax experiment was huge as it started the tories demise in Scotland and it was an uphill battle that they still haven’t really over turned.

Why this is significant is that it all but removed one of the big traditional political powers from the battlefield this then left a vacuum to be filled initially by labour and the the Lib Dems to an extent and over time the snp took labours position.

It’s a truly remarkable turnaround it really is. To go from a political joke to the all encompassing dominant power.
 

Jedi boro

Well-known member
Getting back to the original point about the yes no debate it was an incredibly divisive issue and despite the mantra that it was a great debate etc it did have its nasty elements as well. I know Scottish people that have said they have family members that they no longer speak to due to the referendum.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
I feel I need to clarify a few things no one is saying brave heart led to the snp votes per se as that was clearly the Thatcherite poll tax experiment that forever tainted Scotland’s view of Westminster, that was the catalyst but what I am saying is that it fuelled and continues to fuel this idea that England forced Scotland into a union against their will which just isn’t the case.

What it did do was give them a narrative that they have always been under English oppression ( despite James the first being a Scottish monarch) it feeds into the flower of Scotland style rhetoric and it cleared was a boon to Scottish nationalism.
All I can say to this, as a Scots man with an entirely Scottish family on my mom's side, it's probably b***ks Jedi. One of the early drivers behind independence was oil, hence the skewed funding model. That was introduced to stop Scotland pursuing independence, then came devolution. You would be hard pressed to find a scotsman who isn't a pensioner who thinks Scotland live under English oppression. Forced out of the EU, had right wing tory agendas rammed down their throats yes.
 
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