Stop and Search...

I'm really not sure why this has been made a race thing.

We don't even know the race of the latest suspect.

This is purely about trying to resolve an issue we have with carrying weapons and it needs to be resolved. We are basically just America but with knives instead of guns.

A properly funded police would help, as would a properly functioning court with real sentences simply for the carrying of a knife or weapon.

I'd imagine a lot of opinions would change if it was your child or loved one that was stabbed and killed.
 
KeepCalm&CarrickOn said:
I'm really not sure why this has been made a race thing.

We don't even know the race of the latest suspect.

This is purely about trying to resolve an issue we have with carrying weapons and it needs to be resolved. We are basically just America but with knives instead of guns.

A properly funded police would help, as would a properly functioning court with real sentences simply for the carrying of a knife or weapon.

I'd imagine a lot of opinions would change if it was your child or loved one that was stabbed and killed.
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Harsher sentencing rarely has impact on crime. The root cause of most crime stem from generational poverty and poor education.

The police is one of the few reasonably funded public sectors and whilst I agree with the sentiment public services should all be properly funded, more stop and search and more officers will not reduce this crime significantly.

Lastly to deny there is not an issue with policing and race is to bury your head in the sand, and it's not just a MET issue, it's nationwide.

Not all officers are racist but many are and do racially profile as statistics show this clearly.
 
Stop and Search is another situation where the discussion has got out of hand because of both racists and accusations of racism but statistics also massively skew the discussion because they provide a completely false narrative. Racists in the police have abused their authority and unfairly targeted black people but that doesn't mean we should abandon the process. We should just be better. If people are carrying knives, and they are, then random checks are the only real way to catch people. Completely random checks are a waste of time because the majority of people don't carry knives so there has to be some sort of profiling to reduce the chances of wasting time. If you took a random sample of people at 8am on the morning queuing for a bus with a mix of commuters, pensioners, school kids then the chances of finding a knife on the commuters and pensioners is going to be very low compared to the school kids so why wouldn't you concentrate on the group where the likelihood of finding knives is going to be higher. The issue is clearly who sets the profile and who judges against the profile. On top of profiling of people you also have profiling of areas. You wouldn't bother with stop and search in a predominantly white village with no history of knife crime. It would be a complete waste of time so stop and search would be concentrated on areas with a high incidence of knife crime. If those areas have a high % of black residents then it increases the chances of innocent black people being stopped and searched. Carrying knives is definitely not racially divided. Cites like Liverpool has a lot of gang issues and it is mostly white people. The profile to target there would be different than the profile in Manchester or London.
 
KeepCalm&CarrickOn said:
I'm really not sure why this has been made a race thing.

We don't even know the race of the latest suspect.

This is purely about trying to resolve an issue we have with carrying weapons and it needs to be resolved. We are basically just America but with knives instead of guns.

A properly funded police would help, as would a properly functioning court with real sentences simply for the carrying of a knife or weapon.

I'd imagine a lot of opinions would change if it was your child or loved one that was stabbed and killed.
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Because race is a key element in Stop and Search.
Read the Official Parliamentary / Government / Macpherson reports above and you`l understand. I find it disturbing a serving Police Officer, or an "ex Police-Officer" is unaware of these issues. They have been in the glaring headlights of National Policing since the SUS Laws and the Brixton riots over 40 years ago.. Its not co-incidence, nor "bad apples". It needs to be addressed, not denied.
 
r00fie1 said:
Because race is a key element in Stop and Search.
Read the Official Parliamentary / Government / Macpherson reports above and you`l understand. I find it disturbing a serving Police Officer, or an "ex Police-Officer" is unaware of these issues. They have been in the glaring headlights of National Policing since the SUS Laws and the Brixton riots over 40 years ago.. Its not co-incidence, nor "bad apples". It needs to be addressed, not denied.
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I never witnessed or heard of any officer in the force I worked in abusing the powers on the basis of race.

If the problem is with those undertaking it rather than the task itself then you resolve that and maintain using the power.

I still haven't seen anyone suggest a method of removing the knives.
 
I think stop and search is essential. I've been stopped entering a tube station where they were carrying out random checks a while back. A 40+ year old white male. I was happy to oblige, the young lad who was also being searched at the same time, was less than impressed. He had nothing on him as it happened, but objected to being stopped.
 
KeepCalm&CarrickOn said:
I never witnessed or heard of any officer in the force I worked in abusing the powers on the basis of race.

If the problem is with those undertaking it rather than the task itself then you resolve that and maintain using the power.

I still haven't seen anyone suggest a method of removing the knives.
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You were given 2 perfecty reasonable starting points for reducing knives on the streets. You didn't respond to either of them.

As I initially suspected, you don't want a sensible discussion.
 
London_Boro said:
I think stop and search is essential. I've been stopped entering a tube station where they were carrying out random checks a while back. A 40+ year old white male. I was happy to oblige, the young lad who was also being searched at the same time, was less than impressed. He had nothing on him as it happened, but objected to being stopped.
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And so he should.
 
London_Boro said:
I think stop and search is essential. I've been stopped entering a tube station where they were carrying out random checks a while back. A 40+ year old white male. I was happy to oblige, the young lad who was also being searched at the same time, was less than impressed. He had nothing on him as it happened, but objected to being stopped.
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Exactly.. I have been stopped. No issue whatsoever.

Some entitled folk will take issue with it though.
 
KeepCalm&CarrickOn said:
I never witnessed or heard of any officer in the force I worked in abusing the powers on the basis of race.

If the problem is with those undertaking it rather than the task itself then you resolve that and maintain using the power.

I still haven't seen anyone suggest a method of removing the knives.
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There has been suggestions on this Removing knives is impossible, we need to improve society so people don't reach the levels of dispair and poverty they are now.

If you take a knife of fresh street there is another waiting in their kitchen at home. Increasing stop and search will not reduce knife crime and do nothing to fix the long term causes perpetuating this type of crime.

Also, just because officers in your company never wore their "I am a bigot" badge doesn't mean their biases (bigoted or otherwise) does not impact their decision making.

Stop and search is based on profiling so reveal the bias and racism in its use. The facts are straight forward, people of colour are targeted disproportionatly ... why do you think that is?
 
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