Stop and Search...

K

KeepCalm&CarrickOn

Active member
Given we have lost another 15 year old needlessly I'd love to know why people are so against stop and search...

If you have nothing to hide then it shouldn't be a problem.

We quite simply cannot go on losing life after life because some people are against trying to keep the masses safe.
 
There really is zero reason at all for anyone to carry a a knife in this day and age.

There should be a mandatory fixed prison term for anyone caught carrying a knife.

Knives are the uk’s guns problem as it’s obscene the amount of knife crime in this country now.

Ban the knives stop the issue.

74% of youth death are through knife crime - bbc news
 
Laughing said:
There is a knife problem amongst young people. Stop and search isn't the answer.
Using rhetoric like against keeping the masses safe isn't helpful to open honest debate. Perhaps the op isn't interested in that.
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Erm... The knife problem is more than just the youth and well ofcourse it us about keeping the masses safe.

How do you keep people safe unless the weapons are removed from the streets?

As an ex Police officer I know just how prevalent the carrying and use of weapons is.

Please explain to me how you would resolve the issue? 🤔
 
KeepCalm&CarrickOn said:
Erm... The knife problem is more than just the youth and well ofcourse it us about keeping the masses safe.

How do you keep people safe unless the weapons are removed from the streets?

As an ex Police officer I know just how prevalent the carrying and use of weapons is.

Please explain to me how you would resolve the issue? 🤔
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You can keep people safe without stop and search. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
 
MolteniArcore said:
I’m sure a young black person could explain to you why it doesn’t work.
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I can’t imagine what it must be like for a young black person in London for example. I have a black mate who used to come and stay at mine when on leave from the army. He got stopped and had his car searched 3 times in a couple of years and this was Redcar. I don’t know anyone else who has been stopped like that in Redcar even once.
 
So you're making a race thing?

The carrying of weapons is a problem regardless of colour or creed and I have never met an officer that stopped someone purely on the basis of colour.

In my youth I was stopped multiple times as a white male. Should I have kicked up a stink about it?

Anyway, tell me what we should do to combat the knife problem we have? 🤔
 
KeepCalm&CarrickOn said:
So you're making a race thing?

The carrying of weapons is a problem regardless of colour or creed and I have never met an officer that stopped someone purely on the basis of colour.

In my youth I was stopped multiple times as a white male. Should I have kicked up a stink about it?

Anyway, tell me what we should do to combat the knife problem we have? 🤔
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When the biggest police force in the country is institutionally racist then yeah race has a lot to do with it.
 
Frankie Lee said:
When the biggest police force in the country is institutionally racist then yeah race has a lot to do with it.
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But I'm talking about the routine carrying or weapons and their subsequent use to murder and maim.

I think it is around 16 teens that have lost their life in London this year as a direct result of knives.

What do we do about it?

I keep asking but no one is answering other than to say it's racist.

You'd all be in for a shock if you knew how accessible guns are as well.
 
KeepCalm&CarrickOn said:
But I'm talking about the routine carrying or weapons and their subsequent use to murder and maim.

I think it is around 16 teens that have lost their life in London this year as a direct result of knives.

What do we do about it?

I keep asking but no one is answering other than to say it's racist.

You'd all be in for a shock if you knew how accessible guns are as well.
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It’s not the stop and search I’m against, it’s the fact it is abused.
 
No one is answering because of your rhetoric. It doesn't seem you want a sensible discussion.

But, giving you the benefit of the doubt, here goes.

The first step in any solution is to understand the problem. Why do people carry knives in the first instance. If it's to do with gang cultural, then address that as a long term solution.

Introducing longer sentences may help a little, but probably not.

Removing everyones civil liberties is never an answer, aprticularly when it will dispproportionately effect a single segment of society.
 

Being a police officer doesnt stop some from being racists and the Police Forces of being "Institutionally racist". Neither does it stop criminals from joining the Police Force.​

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Stop and search: Ethnic minorities unfairly targeted by police - watchdog​

  • 20 April 2022

Metropolitan Police officers set up a stop and search operation

The IOPC report highlighted the case of a black child who claimed he had been stopped and searched 60 times

By Andre Rhoden-Paul
BBC News

Police need to end the overuse of stops and searches on black and ethnic minorities, a watchdog has said.
The Independent Office for Police Conduct is calling for guidelines that protect minorities from being stopped due to stereotypes and racial bias.

Its report raised the case of a black boy who said he was searched more than 60 times between the ages of 14 and 16.
Searches handled insensitively could leave people "humiliated and victimised", it said.

The watchdog has made 18 suggestions for change to police forces in England and Wales.

Stop and search is the power given to police to search an individual if they have "reasonable grounds" to suspect the person is carrying illegal drugs, a weapon, stolen property, or something which could be used to commit a crime.

Another case highlighted in the report involved a 15-year-old black boy who was stopped because he smelled of cannabis and was in a high crime area - video showed the boy being punched and kicked by an officer. No drugs were found and the officer was later found guilty of assault.

Black people were seven times more likely to be searched than white people in the year ending March 2021.

People from an Asian or mixed ethnic background were about two-and-a-half times more likely to be stopped and searched than white people.

The IOPC said although stop and search was a legitimate policing tactic, it was time to "break the cycle" of a disproportionate use of stop and search which was causing "trauma" and damaging confidence in policing.

Sal Naseem, the IOPC's lead on discrimination, warned: "It cannot be underestimated how traumatic a stop-and-search encounter can be on an individual.

"If carried out insensitively, a person can be left feeling humiliated and victimised.

"The experience can also be the first interaction for some young adults and if it is a negative one, this can have a lasting impact on that person and the trust they put in the police."
Police search a group of people
Image source, Getty Images​
Image caption,
The powers have been described as an important tool in dealing with knife crime and drugs

Among the IOPC review's recommendations were calls for the College of Policing and the National Police Chiefs' Council to create guidelines on how to protect people from ethnic minorities from being stopped and searched because of "decision-making based upon assumptions, stereotypes and racial bias."

It also recommended the bodies along with the Home Office commission research into the trauma caused to black and Asian people by stop and search.

The National Police Chiefs' Council said police have not always "got the balance right" with stop and search.

Amanda Pearson, a deputy assistant commissioner with the Met police who is the National Police Chiefs' Council lead for stop and search, said: "We recognise that the level of disproportionality in a tactic like stop and search is continuing to damage relations with people from Black, Asian and other ethnic minority backgrounds.

"It is our responsibility to ensure that we balance tackling crime with building trust and confidence in our communities, and we haven't always got that balance right with stop and search.

"We acknowledge the IOPC's recommendations and we will work together with the College of Policing to support forces in getting the balance right."

www.bbc.co.uk

Stop and search: Ethnic minorities unfairly targeted by police - watchdog

The police watchdog calls for protections to stop searches being misused on ethnic minorities.
www.bbc.co.uk

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www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk

Stop and search - Liberty

The Government has made it easier for police to stop and search people they don’t even suspect have committed a crime. This is a recipe for discrimination. ‘Suspicionless’ stop and search powers must be scrapped.
www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk
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Urgent action needed to tackle deep rooted and persistent racial disparities in policing​


30 July 2021


Image representing news article

The Home Affairs Committee calls for urgent action to tackle low levels of BME recruitment and retention, unjustified racial disparities in the use of stop and search and other police powers, and a worrying decline of confidence in the police among some BME communities.

Twenty-two years on from the publication of the Macpherson report that followed the Inquiry into the racist murder of Stephen Lawrence, the Committee has found that whilst policing has changed for the better in many areas, there are still serious and deep rooted racial disparities, and that neither police forces nor governments have taken race equality seriously enough for too long.

The Committee warns that without real and sustainable change the effectiveness and legitimacy of the police will be undermined, and it will take another two decades for police forces in England and Wales to reflect the communities they serve.

The Committee’s report into progress against the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry’s recommendations has found:
  • A persistent confidence gap between Black and White adults in the fairness of policing that has widened in recent years. Community confidence must become a priority for police forces and the Home Office.
  • On current rates of progress, police forces won’t be representative of their communities for another twenty years – that would be forty years after the Macpherson report raised the issue and nearly half a century after the racist murder of Stephen Lawrence. This is inexcusable. New minimum targets must be set immediately for current recruitment so that all forces in England and Wales reflect the ethnic diversity of their local populations and a national target of at least 14% is met by 2030.
  • The use of stop and search is more disproportionate now than it was two decades ago, with no adequate explanation or justification for the nature and scale of racial disparities, including on drug possession searches where in 2019 Black people were 2.4 times more likely than White people to be searched but in the last year were less likely to use drugs. New scrutiny and transparency is needed including more use of police body worn cameras, community oversight, and new police training.
  • Current arrangements for ensuring progress on race equality in policing are not working. A new statutory Race Equality Commissioner for Policing is needed to investigate and scrutinise progress alongside a new Race Equality Steering Group to be chaired by the Home Secretary.
  • The Macpherson report led to a transformation in the policing of racist crimes which senior officers are committed to sustaining, however policing is now being left behind by the rise of online racist crime and a new strategy is needed.
The Committee found that in the years following the Macpherson report there was a welcome focus by all policing organisations to implement the report’s recommendations and to drive forward institutional change. However, over time that progress has stalled and race equality has too often not been taken seriously enough.

The Committee concludes that policing today is very different from twenty-two years ago and there have been important and welcome improvements in policing, including on the policing of racist and hate crimes, the commitment of senior officers to promoting diversity and equality and good examples of local community policing.

However, it has also identified serious and persistent shortcomings on recruitment, misconduct, the use of key police powers and community confidence which point to structural problems that go beyond individual bias.

The Committee found that the Macpherson report’s overall aim of “the elimination of racist prejudice and disadvantage, and the demonstration of fairness in all aspects of policing”, has still not been met.


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Macpherson Report:



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www.fightingknifecrime.london

The Macpherson Report: Twenty-two years on

The Macpherson Report: Twenty-two years on
www.fightingknifecrime.london www.fightingknifecrime.london
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Extract [Full report - follow link above]

Stop and search
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In the year to 31 March 2020, Black people were over nine and a half times more likely to be stopped and searched than White people. Despite the serious concerns raised and recommendations made in the Macpherson report and other reports since, the disproportionality is greater now than it was twenty-two years ago. We agree with HMICFRS that these disparities have damaged confidence in stop and search itself and undermined the legitimacy of policing for the BME communities most affected by it.
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Stop and search is an important police power and the Macpherson report’s conclusion that it has a useful role to play in the prevention and detection of crime still applies. However, no evidence to this inquiry has adequately explained or justified the nature and scale of the disproportionality in the use of stop and search powers. This is especially the case for searches for the possession of drugs where evidence shows that Black people are less likely than White people to have used drugs in the last year, but are 2.4 times more likely to be stopped and searched for drug possession. We recognise the importance of the police being able to take action against knife crime including through stop and search but note that only 16% of ‘reasonable grounds’ searches in 2019/20 were conducted to find offensive weapons.
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We also heard troubling examples of stops and searches being conducted in a manner that was deeply alienating and uncomfortable, including from the IOPC. Given that the majority of people stopped and searched are not found to be committing any crime, stops should be initiated in a respectful and appropriate manner, with care taken to manage conflict and de-escalate encounters where necessary.
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Stop and search must always be used in a focused and targeted way. The Metropolitan Police increased their use of stop and search during the first national covid-19 lockdown to the highest levels seen in London for many years at a time when far fewer people were on the streets. They were wrong to do so: the result was that far more people who were not committing crimes were stopped and searched, the proportion of searches which found weapons or drugs dropped, and the racial disparity widened. It should never have been possible for the equivalent of 1 in 4 Black males between the ages of 15 and 24 in London who were not committing a crime to be stopped and searched during a three-month period.
 
It’s rooted in poverty. It’s a debate nobody in Westminster is really prepared to have because it would mean acknowledging huge failings with education, the prison system, equality, policing, social mobility and public spending generally.

If you want to tackle it, you need political parties to commit to investing in education, welfare, jobs, housing. Both in terms of money AND actual human support. We don’t have that and so things will likely get worse before they get better.

I don’t think there’s really an appetite or incentive to deal with the problems at a political level. It’s like when people want to talk about the NHS and social welfare and housing and how we can’t afford to pay for it any more but never discuss corporate tax avoidance. There’s no hunger to have the debate and actually do the things that would need to be done.
 
oofie I lived in manchester a few years ago when stop and search was used almost exclusively on young black men.

It's a mad idea, but it might just work. Have a fully funded and resourced police force that can properly investigate and bring to justice criminals. Then, of course, fully fund the judiciary so that when suspected criminals are caught they can, quickly, be processed through the system. I am sure we used to do this, back in the day!
 
Stop and search is a sticking plaster, as Roofie stated (and I wholeheartedly agree) this is an issue of poverty and underinvestment is society as a whole.

You raise people's living standards and improve their education, this can only be resolved with long-term vision and solutions.

Stop and search does not make the streets safer if just pads out police statistics (often for negative reasons).
 
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