Still booing the taking the knee

BoroMart

Well-known member
A lot goes on at grass roots level - from kids with Asperger's taking penalties at the Riverside to giving out boots and soon shirts also to disadvantaged kids, many from BAME backgrounds. Maybe it should all be highlighted more. But those messages sometimes get lost.
How do we challenge those that boo. How do we drown out the racists and make them realise that they and their views do not belong.
I think that what I am doing is a practical part of that process. Something that has been successful elsewhere in Cardiff and Blackburn for instance. Am hoping you will all join and be part of this drive to celebrate our diversity and inclusivity and alienate the booing bigots.
the biggest challenge as Gary Lineker pointed out is the rhetoric from the corridors of power and the right wing media, until that changes it's a steep hill we're trying to hike up
 

newyddion

Well-known member
Thank you very much - I have been working on this so far for 2 years.
Ah.. sorry to pish on your chips there mate but it doesn’t and will not achieve an anti racist message and as much as you are great at the many things that you do with and for the club I don’t think you would the right person to achieve something of that nature.

This is maybe be one of those honest and difficult conversations I was talking about. When I made the point about us not taking the knee putting us in the same category as Millwall and us not doing enough to tackle racism you were quick to jump to both clubs defence saying (I think it was you anyway) saying lots was done in the community with food banks etc.. totally missing the point and a completely separate to anti racism. Millwall fans are proud of their racist element.. they pride themselves on it and they consider us to be one of the few clubs to stand side by side with them in refusing to take the knee.

It is fun to collect shirts and have folks have their picture taken, community engagement is important.. but no body looks at pictures taken in nightclubs promoted on social media and thinks that will send a big big message to the rascists.. it’s naive and I’ll informed. I dare say it’s a bit of a blind spot.

How about if the 27 panel wall was to feature 27 black players from Lindy Delapenha to our record breaking striker Chuba Akpom - Emerson, Ugo Ehiogu, Sol Bamba..
What story does that tell in comparison, how much of an impact does that have?

I do think we have let ourselves down with our approach and do think that we need to make a concerted effort to rectify that. My kids would love a black out kit and feel a little bit cheated that we haven’t had one.. obviously there are kids who support other teams that show of ‘their teams’ efforts.. be it in the playground, at football training, in the park or town. That does not compete with some random having their picture taken in an old boro shirt.

It’s the 50th anniversary of ‘the band’ next season.. how about we make it black and explain the reasons why. It would look cool as fcuk and it’s has nothing to do with taking the knee. Black shorts and socks.. interesting the discussion that came up recently about the origin of teams with white shorts and black shorts. Are certain sections of fans going to criticise the justification for that? It’s just a shirt but it’s much more visual and makes a much wider impact on fans young and old.. a genuine impact on fans from other clubs from the outside looking in.
 
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newyddion

Well-known member
A lot goes on at grass roots level - from kids with Asperger's taking penalties at the Riverside to giving out boots and soon shirts also to disadvantaged kids, many from BAME backgrounds. Maybe it should all be highlighted more. But those messages sometimes get lost.
How do we challenge those that boo. How do we drown out the racists and make them realise that they and their views do not belong.
I think that what I am doing is a practical part of that process. Something that has been successful elsewhere in Cardiff and Blackburn for instance. Am hoping you will all join and be part of this drive to celebrate our diversity and inclusivity and alienate the booing bigots.
Please don’t do this again. ‘kids with Asperger's taking penalties at the Riverside to giving out boots and soon shirts also to disadvantaged kids’ - that is great, commendable band something we should be very proud of. But it isn’t anything to do with anti racism

’many from BAME backgrounds’ - c’mon man.. this is weak and desperate, it’s deflecting from the uncomfortable issue at hand. we need a bit of chin stoking rather than jumping to pat ourselves on the back.

How do we challenge racists? Hold up a mirror. How do we drown out racists? By making our anti racist message visable. Those that boo feel that they have every right to do so.. some may even be correct based on the reasons they are doing it (here we go again) if those are booing taking the knee for non racist reasons.. then alternative anti racist gestures should be celebrated. Acknowledgement, understanding and tribute.
 

newyddion

Well-known member
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#worldwithoutnature

The club are happy for us to jump on that meaningless gesture

In 1950 Lindy Delapenha became our first black player.. 70 years later we started the 2020 season with the Black Lives Matter logo appearing on shirts in both the Premier League and Emirates FA Cup.. our effort? we chose to stop taking the knee and did nothing of note in its place.

Boro's leading scorer in the 1951–52, 1953–54 and 1955–56 seasons In total he scored 93 league and FA Cup goals in 270 appearances.. maybe he deserves a statue?
 
Our players have to start taking the knee, if both sides are doing it then maybe it will stop the racists within our crowd from booing?
Have to? That’s a stop too far for me. I’d certainly like to see the club officially do more to condemn the boo boys. But it’s not up to the club, still less to a bunch of middle aged white blokes on a message board, to decide what our young and diverse squad has to do.
 

festa5

Well-known member
the biggest challenge as Gary Lineker pointed out is the rhetoric from the corridors of power and the right wing media, until that changes it's a steep hill we're trying to hike up
well of course several government ministers have come out against taking the knee (including that ****wit bully demonic Raab who seemed to think it was off game of thrones FFS) which again doesnt help and is depressingly symptomatic of the direction this country has taken since the great british people decided to vote for a proven racist at the last election.
 

newyddion

Well-known member
Have to? That’s a stop too far for me. I’d certainly like to see the club officially do more to condemn the boo boys. But it’s not up to the club, still less to a bunch of middle aged white blokes on a message board, to decide what our young and diverse squad has to do.
I agree, statue for Lindy Delapenha, a 27 panel mural celebrating out black players and a change to our home kit.. black band, lion, short, socks..
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1finny

Well-known member
If it was a white player would they avoid criticism? Genuine question. Are there any cases at the moment where a team takes the knee and a white individual does not?

A collective approach is the best approach in my opinion. Prevent anyone being in a position where they are open for abuse.

I get where you are coming from
But
(there is always a but isn’t there?0
It is almost impossible to think of a situation where ‘collectively‘ all players at the club agree. And, that should be respected.

This is bigger than any player, bigger than any club and, IMO worth fighting for.
My view remains (I have listened - lets just agree to disagree) this is a decision for leaders and the rest follow or not.
Those who choose not to follow need a damned good reason. It will never stop a racist player but it will make them toe the line whilst at a club.

In my business I would not leave a decision on removing kicking racism to a ballot of my 2000 colleagues.
 

newyddion

Well-known member
I get where you are coming from
But
(there is always a but isn’t there?0
It is almost impossible to think of a situation where ‘collectively‘ all players at the club agree. And, that should be respected.

This is bigger than any player, bigger than any club and, IMO worth fighting for.
My view remains (I have listened - lets just agree to disagree) this is a decision for leaders and the rest follow or not.
Those who choose not to follow need a damned good reason. It will never stop a racist player but it will make them toe the line whilst at a club.

In my business I would not leave a decision on removing kicking racism to a ballot of my 2000 colleagues.
white chairman and white manager to young black player.. "am I racist"

and therein lies the problem.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
This thread will happen week in week out, while players take the knee on their own decision. You cannot change peoples attitude and never will, it's their make up. So I'll wait till Saturday night for a continuation.
I agree kneeling isn't going to make anyone change their views. It may stop them booing which makes the matchday experience nicer for the rest.

The best we can hope to achieve is to silence racists and give the next generation something to build on.
 

newyddion

Well-known member
the black lives matter thing has lost it's impact.. a somewhat meaningless gesture without action, although that does not mean that the message should be entirely dismissed or we should throw away the idea of making an anti racist gesture or message nor do I feel we can justify our lack of action by substituting an anti racist message with one that says we care about the wildlife or we have people who collect for foodbanks.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
Massively playing devil's advocate here. Where does freedom of speech end and offensive begin?

I know I am going to get pelters for this, and I am, in no way shape or form supporting the booing.

I would like to see the club do something about this. Perhaps our right to express ourselves is why they are not. Is this a stretch?
 

newyddion

Well-known member
Massively playing devil's advocate here. Where does freedom of speech end and offensive begin?

I know I am going to get pelters for this, and I am, in no way shape or form supporting the booing.

I would like to see the club do something about this. Perhaps our right to express ourselves is why they are not. Is this a stretch?
people have the right to express themselves.. but that doesn’t mean that the club cannot make its own anti racist gestures or statements.

we’ve most definitely cultured this environment through lack of education and a lack of visibility.

I honestly don’t think anyone should be walking on egg shells around this subject.. it does nothing to help or move on the conversation.

Some comments have been ridiculous and just as idiotic racists attitudes are clearly harmful, idiotic comments supposed non racists can be equally as harmful.. if not more so.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
people have the right to express themselves.. but that doesn’t mean that the club cannot make its own anti racist gestures or statements.

we’ve most definitely cultured this environment through lack of education and a lack of visibility.

I honestly don’t think anyone should be walking on egg shells around this subject.. it does nothing to help or move on the conversation.

Some comments have been ridiculous and just as idiotic racists attitudes are clearly harmful, idiotic comments supposed non racists can be equally as harmful.. if not more so.
Ah I think you misunderstood my post. I was reaching for a reason the club had done nothing to address this.
 
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