Starmer flying from London to Edinburgh

Would the flight have taken place if he wasn't on it?
Hardly the point, as a society we need a huge change in our attitude and this is just another example of this. He should be leading by example and pushing for change, not doing what people have always done because it is more convenient for him.

Really dont get it anyway, you can go from city centre to city centre by train, much more comfortable, no arriving at the station hours in advance, avoid travel to and from the airport. Taking all of that into account flying cant be any quicker.
 
Wow. That has to be one of the dumbest false equivalencies I’ve seen.

How else is someone supposed to get to India? (Though I’d prefer the zoom call if possible).

Again, people have to bring Johnson into the conversation. You ask Starmer supporters what he stands for and they can’t without switching the conversation to how terrible Johnson is, because there’s nothing there.

As you say there is zoom. Plus not sure whether you have noticed they have a slight Covid problem. Should anyone be going. People bring Johnson into conversation as much as others seem to leave him out.

Not a Starmer fan at the moment either. I voted for him but have been mightily disappointed so far.
 
This is just another in a long list of poor choices by Starmer. He doesn't 'think' or 'live' as you'd expect him to; he just talks the talk (occasionally).

The BLM stuff (taking a knee in a very awkward picture and calling it a moment) is another good example of his perceived lack of sincerity.

Johnson and Tory whataboutery is irrelevent. Starmer needs to convince a lot of people who won't ever vote Tory. This sort of thing doesn't help.
 
It's a funny world we live in isn't it? Leader of one political party constantly caught lying, spends public money on the Mistress he was seeing whilst his wife had cancer, overseas the most corrupt period of governance in modern times. Is at the helm of a country with one of the worst covid deaths rates in the world.

Leader of another one: flies on a plane, giving business to a British company badly affected by the last year.

I know which one I find less agreeable
 
I think it's good that he has flown, anyone efficient would do this, it's cheaper, faster and also supporting an industry that has been completely decimated over the last year.

Also, it's good that he's highlighting support for a Scottish airport, it's absolutely crucial that labour gain some seats up there, before they're lost forever (thanks to JC, Ukip and the Tories).

The "carbon" argument is horsecrap too, the net carbon benefit of Labour actually winning an election would likely be better overall, than this minute difference between a train or an aircraft (which would both be going there anyway). The way I see it, is if he needs to take a1000 flights to make sure that labour get in, then it's still a net gain.

Maybe he should have just walked instead?

Also, zoom meetings won't win labour seats, sometimes a physical presence is needed, especially with older folk.
 
I think it's good that he has flown, anyone efficient would do this, it's cheaper, faster and also supporting an industry that has been completely decimated over the last year.

Also, it's good that he's highlighting support for a Scottish airport, it's absolutely crucial that labour gain some seats up there, before they're lost forever (thanks to JC, Ukip and the Tories).

The "carbon" argument is horsecrap too, the net carbon benefit of Labour actually winning an election would likely be better overall, than this minute difference between a train or an aircraft (which would both be going there anyway). The way I see it, is if he needs to take a1000 flights to make sure that labour get in, then it's still a net gain.

Maybe he should have just walked instead?

Also, zoom meetings won't win labour seats, sometimes a physical presence is needed, especially with older folk.
You are spot on.

Some of these threads trying to run Starmer down are ridiculous.

Bunter is a complete clown and that’s ok.

Starmer gets on a plane and the likes of pog try to blow it up as if a nuclear bomb has gone off.

All getting a bit silly I’m afraid.
 
You are spot on.

Some of these threads trying to run Starmer down are ridiculous.

Bunter is a complete clown and that’s ok.

Starmer gets on a plane and the likes of pog try to blow it up as if a nuclear bomb has gone off.

All getting a bit silly I’m afraid.
It's ridiculous and will hurt labours chances at the next election.

Rather than point at the Tory fire (which has been massive, relentless and has an abundance of fuel), some would rather set their own house on fire and then look at that instead, it's weird.

Labour have to win the centre and have to do some things which some on the far left of the party won't like, it's called a compromise to win, a net benefit or for the greater good.
Most would see it as it's better to crack some eggs and eat an omelette, than completely miss out altogether. Some of the labour left would complain about the chickens and the gas use though, and then just sit there getting hungrier and hungrier, albeit quite smug, until they die of course.

If labour can't hold onto the left of the party, whilst also gaining some from the centre, then they need to cut the left off, for the time being, they're more of a hindrance than a help. They cannot win without the centre/ middle votes, and there is more of them who are there for the taking, so appeasing the far left is completely pointless, if the far left won't offer support at times when a centre grab is needed.

It's funny, as most of this crap only comes up when the tories actually do one or two things right and gain a bit of support in the polls. Now that is happening because of the vaccine and I can't really begrudge them that success, so I totally understand the polling, but give it time and Tories will mess something else up (or people will forget about the vaccine, short memories), and providing the Labour party is united and taking centre votes, it can still win.
 
The problem with channelling anger at the Tories is that it does nothing.

The people that put themselves forwards as the force for change need to be held to account by the people they expect to put them into power. Otherwise, what's the point?
That just means the swing voters seeing opposition squabbling, while the Tories get a free ride - and continue to get a majority at elections
 
It's ridiculous and will hurt labours chances at the next election.

Rather than point at the Tory fire (which has been massive, relentless and has an abundance of fuel), some would rather set their own house on fire and then look at that instead, it's weird.

Labour have to win the centre and have to do some things which some on the far left of the party won't like, it's called a compromise to win, a net benefit or for the greater good.
Most would see it as it's better to crack some eggs and eat an omelette, than completely miss out altogether. Some of the labour left would complain about the chickens and the gas use though, and then just sit there getting hungrier and hungrier, albeit quite smug, until they die of course.

If labour can't hold onto the left of the party, whilst also gaining some from the centre, then they need to cut the left off, for the time being, they're more of a hindrance than a help. They cannot win without the centre/ middle votes, and there is more of them who are there for the taking, so appeasing the far left is completely pointless, if the far left won't offer support at times when a centre grab is needed.

It's funny, as most of this crap only comes up when the tories actually do one or two things right and gain a bit of support in the polls. Now that is happening because of the vaccine and I can't really begrudge them that success, so I totally understand the polling, but give it time and Tories will mess something else up (or people will forget about the vaccine, short memories), and providing the Labour party is united and taking centre votes, it can still win.
Firstly, the point you make about a lack of attention to the Tory fire is false. Johnson and his team are criticised relentlessly on this board; i'm sure one of our Tory voters will confirm that.
Secondly there is something missing from the rest of your post, and that is principle. in Keir Starmer you have a man who participated in the coup against his own leader Jeremy Corbyn. He then won the leadership of the party with ten pledges and a promise to be a uniting leader.
He has since ditched all ten pledges and spent the last year attacking the left of the party, denying left wing Jewish groups any voice; he has removed the whip from the former leader (this decision stands even after Corbyn was cleared) and suspended left wing Jews from the party. He did of course take a massive donation from a zionist which he kept hidden until the leadership vote was over.

Now the right wing of Labour are desperate for us to hold our noses and vote against our own principles just to remove the incumbent PM. Well I am less concerned about the short term because but if we do that we will remain a two party state forever and nothing will ever change. The reason I became a Labour supporter and party member is because of my principles, and that is this same reason that I have now withdrawn my membership and my vote.
 
Firstly, the point you make about a lack of attention to the Tory fire is false. Johnson and his team are criticised relentlessly on this board; i'm sure one of our Tory voters will confirm that.
Secondly there is something missing from the rest of your post, and that is principle. in Keir Starmer you have a man who participated in the coup against his own leader Jeremy Corbyn. He then won the leadership of the party with ten pledges and a promise to be a uniting leader.
He has since ditched all ten pledges and spent the last year attacking the left of the party, denying left wing Jewish groups any voice; he has removed the whip from the former leader (this decision stands even after Corbyn was cleared) and suspended left wing Jews from the party. He did of course take a massive donation from a zionist which he kept hidden until the leadership vote was over.

Now the right wing of Labour are desperate for us to hold our noses and vote against our own principles just to remove the incumbent PM. Well I am less concerned about the short term because but if we do that we will remain a two party state forever and nothing will ever change. The reason I became a Labour supporter and party member is because of my principles, and that is this same reason that I have now withdrawn my membership and my vote.
Right, by people I meant "some" people, not all people. Namely, it's the far left of labour doing the complaining, not those in the middle of labour, those on the right of labour, or those outside of labour. The point is the left need to get on side, or just go, as they're sinking the ship trying to pull labour ina direction which loses votes from the middle. The people in the middles will not change their principles overnight, it will take years and decades and there's zero chance of getting them to change without being in power and demonstrating a good change.

Principle is all fine and dandy, to those who have principles, but it doesn't win votes. Or it doesn't win more than it loses. What wins votes is doing what most would agree is fine for the circumstances, or appealing to a large chunk of people who are there for the taking.

Coup? Corbyn was his own coup, he was his own (his parties) worst enemy, he did more damage to labour than the tories could ever do. Wrong man, wrong time, wrong place and that is coming from someone who very begrudgingly voted for him (well I didn't vote for him, I voted for Labour/ my MP).

He will unite more people for labour than corby did, although saying that, he won't even need to. The far left 10m won't be worth as much as the left ish and middle 12m, or even 10m etc. The far left can't/ won't vote tory ever, ever, ever and there's always a coalition chance with them, so a vote lost there is not one that will work against them, ever.

In the middle, every vote gained is one the tories lose, it's a swing vote, they're more important, twice as important, especially in critical seats.

I think the last year, he's kept quite middle of the road and kept quite quiet, which has been the right thing to do in a pandemic. Just sit there and be quiet whilst the tories burn their own house down.

Losing your vote is fine, you won't vote tory and if it gains a vote in the middle you've been replaced. It also means the toris are one down too, so it's a win.
Also, whoever you vote for would probably be up for a coalition, or more likely, whoever you vote for won't win that seat.

Being two party is bad news, I agree on that, but it's just the way it is and the only way to swing things away from the tories is to vote for the one thing that has a chance against them, which is labour and a labour which is not trying to change the world, too quickly, and when they're nowhere near having any sort of control. Gain control and then try and go for proportional representation, nobody honest and fair should not want proportional representation. If it;s sold truthfully, it should get in.
 
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It's a funny world we live in isn't it? Leader of one political party constantly caught lying, spends public money on the Mistress he was seeing whilst his wife had cancer, overseas the most corrupt period of governance in modern times. Is at the helm of a country with one of the worst covid deaths rates in the world.

Leader of another one: flies on a plane, giving business to a British company badly affected by the last year.

I know which one I find less agreeable

Again. Incapable of discussing Starmer without comparisons to Johnson.

It’s as if even his own supporters know deep down he is s***, and the only thing they have left is to point out that they think he’s less s*** than the other bloke.
 
Again. Incapable of discussing Starmer without comparisons to Johnson.

It’s as if even his own supporters know deep down he is s***, and the only thing they have left is to point out that they think he’s less s*** than the other bloke.
That's a bit hypocritical no? Also, do you think I'm a supporter of Starmer?
 
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Again. Incapable of discussing Starmer without comparisons to Johnson.

It’s as if even his own supporters know deep down he is s***, and the only thing they have left is to point out that they think he’s less s*** than the other bloke.
I think he's good, and will have the best chance of winning an election since Blair (when we get to that), which is the most important thing. Comparing to Johnson is the most important thing, seeing as that's who he is up against. One of the reasons JC lost is because people actually preferred May/ Johnson/ Farage/ anyone over him, which is some doing, seeing as they're all awful. I voted for Labour, but I wish I could have done it by not appearing on the same side as JC, as I knew it was a losing vote.

More importantly, those in the middle of Labour/ Tory will find him a lot more harder to disagree with, and he looks a lot more competent than JC.

When you say less $hit than the other bloke, you mean less $hit than Corbyn, right? from the point of view of those who are possible to sway, in the middle?
 
Really dont get it anyway, you can go from city centre to city centre by train, much more comfortable, no arriving at the station hours in advance, avoid travel to and from the airport. Taking all of that into account flying cant be any quicker.

It's about getting that photograph of him coming out of the Aeroplane door. Sort of picture American presidents regularly put out isn't it. This is the Labour Party's current level/style of strategy for polling questions like 'who looks most Prime Ministerial?' etc.
 
He has missed the opportunity to sit on the floor in an empty carriage, claiming he couldn't find a seat.

I'm gonna shock you now... brace yourself... ready?

Virgin Trains were the ones being dishonest about how crowded the train was.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/n...age-proves-corbyn-told-truth-traingate-55552/

I bet you can't believe it eh? A train company? With a vested interest in protecting their train profits? Why would the lie to discredit a socialist politician with plans to nationalise trains? But there you have it.
 
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