Starmer Abandons Tuition Fees Pledge

Chris_Boro said:
I didn't mean it to be a pick on you personally, apologies if it's come across that way.
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No problem, I don't see any of your comments as picking on me. Including the thing about whether you meant all tax or me personally for what its worth! I wasn't asking that clarification to be ridiculous, I've been asked it before. 👍

Chris_Boro said:
I would pay higher taxes too, but I don't believe the wider electorate would support an election on that basis
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I disagree with the idea that the wider electorate would have to pay higher taxes to have a more socialised economy. A few reasons why: we know there's a vast amount of tax avoided by big companies and billionaires; we had a more socialised economy in this country decades ago without having a higher overall tax burden; the last two Labour manifestos were costed, included socialising parts of the economy and only increased taxes for the top 5% of earners; and there's a big difference already between the tax on earned income and the tax on passive incomes, so why take it as agiven that any increases would have to fall on earned income?

Chris_Boro said:
which is why, as time progresses, Starmers original pledges are being dropped.
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That's pretty clearly not why though. You'd have to be very naive to really think that. I doubt you or others on the thread actually think Starmer's just waiting for the perfect conditions to flip back to socialist policies.

Chris_Boro said:
The economy is getting worse and worse,
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Agreed, maybe we ought to try something different from the direction of travel since Thatcher?
 
MolteniArcore said:
I would have thought the Starmer haters who have jumped on this would have done so back in January when it was openly discussed:

But hey, that one didn’t get much coverage.
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MolteniArcore said:
Reading on here it seems that everyone wants him to whip out the magic money tree and SPEND SPEND SPEND! Seriously, have a word with yourselves - you will just end up with another 5 years of Tory at this rate 🙄
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Hang on, which is it? You want us to criticise Starmer more regularly or less often?

MolteniArcore said:
Let’s not forget what was actually reported though, which as usual, has been totally bypassed by the haters:

“He added that the current fees system, of £9,250 a year, was "unfair" and "doesn't work for students, and doesn't work for universities".”
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Oway Molteni don't be naive. Surely you can read between the lines, follow his trajectory and realise by the time hes in government he won't be doing anything for students fees.

MolteniArcore said:
So basically he’s arguing that the Tories have trashed the economy (true) and as such the economic landscape has shifted considerably.
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😒🫤 implies the tories were doing well with the economy up until 2020. Wouldn't be my pitch.
 
This was originally going to be paid for by raising corporation tax wasn't it? That's just been done so I'd be shocked if this wasn't a preface to an attack on the tories mismanagement of the economy.
 
Chris_Boro said:
If Labour win the next election, how would they justify paying for...

Increased funding to the NHS.
Increased funding to Education.
Scrapping tuition fees.
Nationalising Energy.
Nationalising Water.
Nationalising Rail.
Increased infrastructure spending.
Increased Police funding.
Build ~300k Houses.
Reduce Council Tax.
Increase Care spending/overhaul.
Fairer welfare system.
Cover the destroyed immigration system.

Basically increased funding on everything the Tories have broken, which is pretty much everything.

If the answer to that is to increase everyone's taxes massively to cover it or just "print money", then the Tories win the next election. It's that simple.
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Call it long term borrowing education pays for itself as does pretty much everything else. Invest in nhs housing and social care now alleviates crisis points in years to come. Cutting welfare ie austerity just makes the economic outcome worse as has been proven by the tories. We can borrow we did it for covid and we can do it again.

As for starmer hes just a fůcking tory with another rosette.
 
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r00fie1 said:
His drive is for power. But not the power of being in No. 10. He represents the vested interests of the elite and privileged. He is a typical Trans-Atlanticist, who supports NATO as an offensive force and backs US Wars. His connection with US and UK Intelligence Services are without question and his performance in his DPP role saw him throw-out cases where unquestionable evidence was given to him about unlawful killing: see Jean Charles de Menzes. He supports private healthcare and purports to be able to manage the Tory racist immigration and hostile environment - better than they can. He opposes any extension of public ownership and profers maintaining the UK as a broker for unregulated profits for the likes of BP and British Gas. He opposes Trades Unions and the right to strike - threatening other Labour MP`s who support those on a picket line and hasnt opposed the Governments "minimum service level" proposals. His support for increased police powers and attacking human rights and individual freedoms, is indicated by his lack of effective opposition to the Tory`s on those issues. He perpetuates a hierachy of racism in the Labour Party, which he has refused to acknowledge: see the Forde Report. He is a very dangerous figure-head for much deeper interests than the Labour Party or the Westminster bubble.
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In otherwords hes a cûnt
 
Trug said:
Then don’t make uncosted commitments
How come the Tories do?
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Trug, we expect this from the Tories. I want better from Labour. We need better from Labour, or the Tories will be re-elected. What a disaster for the average person that will be.
 
Difficult to know where to start for any incoming government Red or Blue. Practically everything is broken and bankrupt.

So do you stick with the nuggets who broke it all and in the process made billions for themselves, and their chums? Or do you try something different?

I hope that come the next G.E. even the daftest of folk would learnt to stop punching themselves in the face.

I have a 🐈 that couldn't do a worse job than a Johnson or a Truss. And remember that the tories rated all of them above Sunak. That makes him 3rd rate at best even in their own party.

When our PM is worth £800m+ I can't believe he is doing a job for £160k p.a. unless he is being sponsored by 3rd parties.

Why do you think he is here? Out of the goodness of his heart perhaps.
 
This thread and all the similar ones, are really depressing.
I don’t understand why the people who keep highlighting when he breaks pledges, which he keeps doing, are somehow seen as the bad guys who will enable the Tories to stay in power?
Surely, if that happens, the only person to blame will be Starmer.
He is desperate to distance himself from Corbyn‘s Labour but in doing so he’s causing far more than just a few left wingers on FMTTM to say ‘hang on a minute…just what does this guy represent? The lines are blurring, will the real Starmer please stand up,’

Political podcasts with broad audiences are starting to ask uncomfortable questions too. Labour need to be really careful going forward.

podcasts.apple.com

‎The News Agents: Will the real Keir Starmer please stand up on Apple Podcasts

‎Show The News Agents, Ep Will the real Keir Starmer please stand up - 2 May 2023
podcasts.apple.com
 
coluka said:
I agree the personal attacks were abhorrent and ill advised. I have no doubt you had no intention to scaremonger either. I just think if the ordinary jacks and Jills of the UK were to come across your post and comments like it, it would have that effect. Most voters in the country are not politically ideolistic, they care about their income source, a roof over their heads and food on the table, some of the lucky ones will care about affording a holiday or running a car too and they will more than likely be afraid of change. They have seen life get harder under the tories but Sunak is portrayed as a Mr nice guy who is an economic safe pair of hands trying to do his best on inflation, immigration and looking after the family silver. If they see Starmer being lied about by the tories and see a section of the traditional Labour party supporters attacking him too, what do you think will happen? Where will their vote go, if indeed they vote, abstention is an assist for the tories in truth as things stand.

I admire to some degree people having ideological hopes and visions it is their absolute right, but the truth staring everyone in the face is 5 more years of Sunak or 5 years of Starmer, who can at least make a start on righting some wrongs of the last 12 yrs. I would urge all those that do not like Starmer to abide by the many messages folk said to me under Corbyns leadership, and consider the reality of another term of tory rule. I held my nose and did the right thing, I hope people will take their own advice to me in 2019 otherwise it would be somewhat hypocritical for them not to.
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This is not personal or meant to be a criticism, but when you say you “held your nose” in 2019 what were you actually voting in favour of that you’d normally be inclined to vote against? I don’t really want to even type his name out as it’ll be used against me and others later on but what Corbyn was offering was mild, northern European-style social democracy.

And we were told that what he was offering was actually good, his policies were popular with the public… but because he was a raging anti-Semite, we needed to replace him in order to win the next election. We just need to get rid of that raging anti-Semite, the racist, the weird Grandad, and then we’ll wipe the floor with the Tories.

So what happened to that? Why are a set of policies that are generally popular with the public being abandoned almost at will by this current leader and his team?

I was and am absolutely disgusted with how Corbyn was treated but was always going to vote for Labour just to get the Tories out. I was more than prepared to ‘hold my nose’ and vote for Labour because the party came first. But as time has progressed, it’s become clearer than Starmer has just lied and lied and lied. And rather than people pointing that out or being upset about it, they’re upset with the people pointing it out. It is absolutely bizarre.

I understand that he, or any politician, cannot keep every single policy or proposal to the letter because that’s not the world we live in. But this, this constant abandoning of what really should be - and were presented as - pledges and principles, the drift to the right to hoover up the votes of indecisive Tories and lapsed UKIP voters… this constant cosying up to the newspaper barons and doing what they say… and all that that entails, it’s just really unpalatable IMO.

And people will talk about Brexit as well. But what strikes me at the moment is half the people who voted voted against it. And yet we have the two main parties both refusing to acknowledge it has been an unmitigated disaster while leaving half the country without any representation at all. And apparently that’s okay and we should get behind it.

Generally, with Starmer or any political leader, once you’ve gone right, you tend not to come back. And we have shifted to the right at quite an alarming rate over the past few years, which doesn’t reflect how the UK votes as a whole. So to see someone taking the Labour Party to the right while larger and larger swathes of people, voters, are left without representation just makes me not just uncomfortable but very, very angry because there is no justification for it whatsoever. And that’s without acknowledging that it’s the complete opposite of what we were told was going to happen.
 
bumface said:
You'll end up with another 5 years of Tory if Starmer wins the next election.
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So in your honest opinion, bumface, and please be realistic within what is achievable in the timescale, who should people vote for to ensure we have a non tory Government at the next general election, and how you feel doing so will benefit us all, because I am lost as to how you think voting Labour, with Starmer as leader, will be no different to voting for the conservatives.
 
Abel Tasman said:
This thread is as predictable as was foreseen by post 2. Slanging match, rehearsing same old arguments - pointless. And a ton. The same happens all over the world in politics, We all never agree so lets talk about football or the best place to get fish and chips.
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Where is the best place to get fish and chips in NZ?
 
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