Shamima Begum

Randy said:
Question for those in favour of her return.

Say she did come back, served a bit of time in prison (minimum or maximum security) and was eventually let out because let's face it the justice system in this country is a joke, she then goes on to facilitate or become part of a terrorist plot that kills many many people. Do your thoughts change then?
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She's British, why shouldn't we deal with her. Which country do you think should have to cope with your assumed future terrorism?
 
Redka said:
takes pin from grenade and thinks ahh go on then…..

There is a lot of talk about grooming on this site she was 15 - for those convinced by the “she was groomed” theory do you share the same empathy for the James Bulger killers they were clearly influenced /groomed by adults in the atrocity they committed. I’m not sure there is a person taht doesn’t think they are monsters. However there are many here forgiving this woman because she was only a child , she was groomed etc. why don’t we afford them the same , they were much younger than Shenita begum.

Other countries would have treated the James bulger killers in a much different way, yet here they were tried as adults.

The Norway town that forgave and forgot its child killers | James Bulger murder | The Guardian

<p>In 1994, in Trondheim, five-year-old Silje Redergard was beaten to death by two little boys. Today, the girl's family still suffers and one of the boys is in trouble again – the echoes of the Bulger case are clear. So why has the public reaction in Norway been so startlingly different?</p>
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

Am very interested to hear the thoughts from those defending her on my question. Did we just fail in our duty to protect them?
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Who did Begum murder?
 
newyddion said:
The law that says she is a child and a British citizen? No point having the law really is there.. we should just rely of feelings and opinions.

Princes shouldn’t face punishment for any sort of sex crime and politicians should be exempt from.. well from pretty much everything.
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Exactly.
 
The defense se of those vile paedophiles that abused those girls in Rotherham was, they did do by their own free will.
Many of those poor kids were 15
 
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I think she should be brought back just on the old saying "if you want something done properly, do it yourself". If she is indeed a threat to national security I'd much prefer Britains prison system was controlling that threat, rather than just leave her in some camp with f*ck knows who.
 
There are many questions with this young woman.

How many 15 year old girls travel independently to war zones? or marry Isis frontline fighters and have three children by them in 4 years.

She may have been trapped and frightened, but did she have to marry a frontline fighter so quickly after arriving (a week?).

The evidence to me based on that was that she supported Isis when they were doing well and that she acted and behaved as an adult.
 
Redwurzel said:
There are many questions with this young woman.

How many 15 year old girls travel independently to war zones? or marry Isis frontline fighters and have three children by them in 4 years.

She may have been trapped and frightened, but did she have to marry a frontline fighter so quickly after arriving (a week?).

The evidence to me based on that was that she supported Isis when they were doing well and that she acted and behaved as an adult.
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If you watch the recent BBC documentary I’m not sure she really had a choice about getting married when she did.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
She's British, why shouldn't we deal with her. Which country do you think should have to cope with your assumed future terrorism?
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Why can't the country she ran off to have keep her?


Ms Begum said she made the choice to go to Syria and could make her own decisions, despite being only 15 at the time. She said she was partly inspired by videos of fighters beheading hostages and also by videos showing "the good life" under IS.
She watched videos of the murders of British hostages, she told the BBC, but said she did not know the names of any of the victims.

While she told the BBC she would have let her late son become an IS fighter, she wants her new baby "to be British" and for her to return to the UK with him.

Yeah, not the person I want back on the same streets my innocent children walk on.
 
Randy said:
Why can't the country she ran off to have keep her?


Ms Begum said she made the choice to go to Syria and could make her own decisions, despite being only 15 at the time. She said she was partly inspired by videos of fighters beheading hostages and also by videos showing "the good life" under IS.
She watched videos of the murders of British hostages, she told the BBC, but said she did not know the names of any of the victims.

While she told the BBC she would have let her late son become an IS fighter, she wants her new baby "to be British" and for her to return to the UK with him.

Yeah, not the person I want back on the same streets my innocent children walk on.
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She ran off to ISIS, not Syria.
 
atypical_boro said:
She ran off to ISIS, not Syria.
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Iraq and Syria.

The Islamic State – also known as ISIS, ISIL, or Daesh – emerged from the remnants of al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), a local offshoot of al Qaeda founded by Abu Musab al Zarqawi in 2004. It faded into obscurity for several years after the surge of U.S. troops to Iraq in 2007. But it began to reemerge in 2011. Over the next few years, it took advantage of growing instability in Iraq and Syria to carry out attacks and bolster its ranks.

The group changed its name to the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) in 2013. ISIS launched an offensive on Mosul and Tikrit in June 2014. On June 29, ISIS leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi announced the formation of a caliphate stretching from Aleppo in Syria to Diyala in Iraq, and renamed the group the Islamic State.
 
Randy said:
Iraq and Syria.

The Islamic State – also known as ISIS, ISIL, or Daesh – emerged from the remnants of al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), a local offshoot of al Qaeda founded by Abu Musab al Zarqawi in 2004. It faded into obscurity for several years after the surge of U.S. troops to Iraq in 2007. But it began to reemerge in 2011. Over the next few years, it took advantage of growing instability in Iraq and Syria to carry out attacks and bolster its ranks.

The group changed its name to the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) in 2013. ISIS launched an offensive on Mosul and Tikrit in June 2014. On June 29, ISIS leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi announced the formation of a caliphate stretching from Aleppo in Syria to Diyala in Iraq, and renamed the group the Islamic State.
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I know what ISIS is, it is not the same as the state of Syria. They can’t just “keep her”.
 
Redwurzel said:
There are many questions with this young woman.

How many 15 year old girls travel independently to war zones? or marry Isis frontline fighters and have three children by them in 4 years.

She may have been trapped and frightened, but did she have to marry a frontline fighter so quickly after arriving (a week?).

The evidence to me based on that was that she supported Isis when they were doing well and that she acted and behaved as an adult.
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I think I usually quite like your posts Wurzel but what the bloomin heck is that.

"How many 15 year old girls travel independently to war zones? or marry Isis frontline fighters and have three children by them in 4 years."

Not many, as most probably aren't as susceptible to grooming. The fact she was suggests she was probably quite mentally vulnerable.

We also need to consider the people involved here, she was smuggled into the country by someone working for the Canadian intelligence agency. These people aren't a joke. They recruit through manipulation, grooming and radicalisation. It's SO OFTEN the most vulnerably minded people, especially kids, who are open to radicalisation.

"She may have been trapped and frightened, but did she have to marry a frontline fighter so quickly after arriving (a week?)."

Aye yeah mate, I'm sure she had the option of saying "actually no I'd like a little bit more time to think about it" or "I don't think this fella is quite right for me, what other options do I have?".

These Islamic extremist terrorists are famed for their respect towards women's rights after all.

I'm surprised they didn't conduct the ceremony the minute she arrived.

"The evidence to me based on that was that she supported Isis when they were doing well and that she acted and behaved as an adult."

Speak to a 15 year old with their mind set on something and you will encounter someone who in their own mind believes themself to be of adult mind with the capacity to make their own choices. That does not change the fact they are in fact still a child and should be handled and cared for as one.

Have some of the people on this thread actually spent any time with young adults? I imagine some of you are parents? Ffs, what the hell is wrong with people these days. How morally bankrupt are we that we blame 15 year olds for being groomed and radicalised.

This has been politicised and she's not being brought back so the Tories don't look like they're soft on terrorists and borders and don't risk alienating their most hardcore of voter base.

This is a thoroughly depressing thread, a void of empathy with a startling level of ignorance.

Shame.
 
Big_Nothing said:
I think I usually quite like your posts Wurzel but what the bloomin heck is that.

"How many 15 year old girls travel independently to war zones? or marry Isis frontline fighters and have three children by them in 4 years."

Not many, as most probably aren't as susceptible to grooming. The fact she was suggests she was probably quite mentally vulnerable.

We also need to consider the people involved here, she was smuggled into the country by someone working for the Canadian intelligence agency. These people aren't a joke. They recruit through manipulation, grooming and radicalisation. It's SO OFTEN the most vulnerably minded people, especially kids, who are open to radicalisation.

"She may have been trapped and frightened, but did she have to marry a frontline fighter so quickly after arriving (a week?)."

Aye yeah mate, I'm sure she had the option of saying "actually no I'd like a little bit more time to think about it" or "I don't think this fella is quite right for me, what other options do I have?".

These Islamic extremist terrorists are famed for their respect towards women's rights after all.

I'm surprised they didn't conduct the ceremony the minute she arrived.

"The evidence to me based on that was that she supported Isis when they were doing well and that she acted and behaved as an adult."

Speak to a 15 year old with their mind set on something and you will encounter someone who in their own mind believes themself to be of adult mind with the capacity to make their own choices. That does not change the fact they are in fact still a child and should be handled and cared for as one.

Have some of the people on this thread actually spent any time with young adults? I imagine some of you are parents? Ffs, what the hell is wrong with people these days. How morally bankrupt are we that we blame 15 year olds for being groomed and radicalised.

This has been politicised and she's not being brought back so the Tories don't look like they're soft on terrorists and borders and don't risk alienating their most hardcore of voter base.

This is a thoroughly depressing thread, a void of empathy with a startling level of ignorance.

Shame.
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The irony here big nothing is that a number of posters on this thread have been groomed and manipulated, radicalised you might say, themselves by media coverage and they don't see it.
 
Laughing said:
The irony here big nothing is that a number of posters on this thread have been groomed and manipulated, radicalised you might say, themselves by media coverage and they don't see it.
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It's left me depressed and is exactly the reason I left the sinking ship. Full of hateful, envious people, growing moreso by the day. I couldn't go to my local in Norton without hearing racist bile by the end.

I love my country and I dream of the day I return to it when it is a great country again, where we lead and push the word forwards in the name of progress.

This, as with many things in the last decade have been a stain on the country.

I tell you as someone who lives abroad, travels regularly and has many friends of different nations that our stock has fallen. We haven't always been popular but we did used to be somewhat respected. We're now a hateful laughing stock who stands for F all.
 
Big_Nothing said:
It's left me depressed and is exactly the reason I left the sinking ship. Full of hateful, envious people, growing moreso by the day. I couldn't go to my local in Norton without hearing racist bile by the end.

I love my country and I dream of the day I return to it when it is a great country again, where we lead and push the word forwards in the name of progress.

This, as with many things in the last decade have been a stain on the country.

I tell you as someone who lives abroad, travels regularly and has many friends of different nations that our stock has fallen. We haven't always been popular but we did used to be somewhat respected. We're now a hateful laughing stock who stands for F all.
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I appreciate your position, and I hear it a lot, but its ruddy depressing when people leave the UK because of these issues and say I'll return when it gets better.

How does it get better if the people who believe in better have left? I stay and handle the issues as I see them. Can't remember who it was who said it, but change comes from within.
 
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