Laughing
Well-known member
I cannot speak for anyone else Randy, but I don't care who is in no 10 when the decision is made, it's wrong and it's wrong on multiple levels.
Shamima Begum
- Thread starter Priv
- Start date
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
Personally I couldn't care less what colour party made the decision, I think it is morally wrong.
The home secretaries who have made these decisions are pretty morally bankrupt though. We have Javid, a previous non dom, who lied about Partygate and was responsible for overseeing tax dodging schemes, Patel who is a proven bully and Braverman who dreams of deporting asylum seekers to Rwanda.
What a bunch. I wouldn't want any of them deciding my fate.
Redka
Well-known member
Assuming she is brought home at some point can you imagine the circus that would follow her around. Do you really think she could get a “fair trial”?
www.cps.gov.uk
Abuse of Process | The Crown Prosecution Service
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Yes it is as the law was not designed to cover situations whereby the child has their birth citizenship removed.
It's designed to allow people born outside the country to Bangladeshi citizens to be reintegrated before the age of 21.
The UK have taken a literal interpretation of their law and applied it to cover themselves against breaking international law, the reality is she was and is never going to be a Bangladeshi citizen.
The ruling was one of technicalities, the had no power to overrule the political decision of the UK Home Secretary.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Assuming she is brought home at some point can you imagine the circus that would follow her around. Do you really think she could get a “fair trial”?
Abuse of Process | The Crown Prosecution Service
You cannot remove someone the chance of a fair trial because of popular opinion, what sort of precedent is being set here?
Let's take the hypothetical opposite, a video comes out in the future showing Bagum murdering a British journalist, we've removed our ability to get justice for that person and their family.
A murderer has effectively got away with it because we washed our hands of any responsibility.
For the Home sec. to make this life changing decision, allegedly on the advice of the Security Service which we are not privy to the allegations made against her…but if they serious enough to render her stateless then it requires an open court case and then it is open justice.
But if the allegations perhaps won’t stand up in court, even if evidence is given in camera. There will always be an element of doubt amongst some.
Perhaps she had to be “othered” for that reason.
I had an experience, not in this country, but in much more democratic society between myself together with my lawyer and my independent witness with the authorities where a satisfactory conclusion, for me, was reached. Later that night I literally got the ‘12 o clock knock ‘ ( read Solzhenitsyn)
Never believe a word they say, ever.
But if the allegations perhaps won’t stand up in court, even if evidence is given in camera. There will always be an element of doubt amongst some.
Perhaps she had to be “othered” for that reason.
I had an experience, not in this country, but in much more democratic society between myself together with my lawyer and my independent witness with the authorities where a satisfactory conclusion, for me, was reached. Later that night I literally got the ‘12 o clock knock ‘ ( read Solzhenitsyn)
Never believe a word they say, ever.
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
This thread is a real eye opener.
Seems the Tory/right wing media narrative of creating and blaming a bogeyman for all of our problems has now filtered through enough that people can’t consider things rationally without their judgement being clouded.
Depressing.
Seems the Tory/right wing media narrative of creating and blaming a bogeyman for all of our problems has now filtered through enough that people can’t consider things rationally without their judgement being clouded.
Depressing.
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takes pin from grenade and thinks ahh go on then…..
There is a lot of talk about grooming on this site she was 15 - for those convinced by the “she was groomed” theory do you share the same empathy for the James Bulger killers they were clearly influenced /groomed by adults in the atrocity they committed. I’m not sure there is a person taht doesn’t think they are monsters. However there are many here forgiving this woman because she was only a child , she was groomed etc. why don’t we afford them the same , they were much younger than Shenita begum.
Other countries would have treated the James bulger killers in a much different way, yet here they were tried as adults.
The Norway town that forgave and forgot its child killers | James Bulger murder | The Guardian
<p>In 1994, in Trondheim, five-year-old Silje Redergard was beaten to death by two little boys. Today, the girl's family still suffers and one of the boys is in trouble again – the echoes of the Bulger case are clear. So why has the public reaction in Norway been so startlingly different?</p>amp.theguardian.com
Am very interested to hear the thoughts from those defending her on my question. Did we just fail in our duty to protect them?
Not sure I understand the comparison here. I've never seen it claimed that the James Bulger killers were groomed? Aren't you basically asking if people would still think there were mitigating factors, if there wasn't the same mitigating factors?
Not sure what you're saying here - I already posted a link to where their ministry of foreign affairs have said that not only would she not be allowed in, but she is also not a Bangladeshi citizen. Even if she might ostensibly have been entitled to their citizenship, as their foreign ministry pointed out, she had never applied for, or actually held Bangladeshi citizenship.
On the other hand, she did actually hold the British citizenship that our rules clearly say she was entitled to by virtue of jus soli - up until the point where our Home Secretary revoked it.
Redka
Well-known member
In the article it mentions that it’s a birthright there is no need to apply.
Also just because their ministry of foreign affairs says she won’t be given citizenship it goes against their own rules.
Anyway it’s a moot point now as she is over 21 but at the time I believe the courts have the correct decision.
Millbrook
Well-known member
I also wondered what she could be charged under if she returned. Anyone know?
newusername
Well-known member
newyddion
Well-known member
If she had returned to the UK after joining ISIS and marrying a 21 year old terrorist.. would she have been able to buy cigarettes at the shop? purchase a lottery ticket? buy a beer.. etc etc etc..
No, because she was still a child.
newyddion
Well-known member
If you’re gonna put it that way.. strip them of citizenship! GIVE BORIS BACK!Bit of a tangent here, and I'm playing devils advocate. She's had her citizenship revoked as she's deemed a threat to national security. Okay.
David Ballantyne Smith sold secrets to the Russians via the British Embassy in Berlin. Jailed, citizenship intact. His actions could easily have caused the deaths of British citizens.
Boris Johnson is in the pocket of Russian money, and met with Lebedev Snr without his security detail present, as PM, and it's just "tsssk.....that's Boris!".
Remember she didn't commit any of the atrocities, she was just naïve enough to be a puppet supporting them.
Where is the line drawn?
Born in the USA.. send him back!
Lets not forget Begum instigated the life changing decision by doing what she did in the first place.
But ultimately still responsible for her own actions in the eyes of the law lets not forget
Redka
Well-known member
I’m just shocked so many people are going with the “she was groomed” line and because she is below a certain age she is a victim.
The JB killers weren’t groomed as such but their actions were influenced by adults so in essence they are victims also - they were much younger than Shemima Begum yet everybody hat
yes as per this guy who was much younger….
Boy, 14, youngest to be convicted of terror offence - BBC News
The schoolboy, who was arrested in July when he was 13, will be sentenced in April.
www.bbc.co.uk
newyddion
Well-known member
The law that says she is a child and a British citizen? No point having the law really is there.. we should just rely on feelings and opinions.
Princes shouldn’t face punishment for any sort of sex crime and politicians should be exempt from.. well from pretty much everything.
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