Shamima Begum wins right to return to UK

FaceFuzz seems to think it is OK to murder someone, it's an interesting, if unenlightened viewpoint
 
Does anybody think a terrorist nor a terrorist sympathiser is open to rehabilitation?
Question applies to her aswell as others.
 
RandySavage said:
Personally I think once someone has decided to go down the terrorism road then there will always be a heightened danger that they will be triggered into committing terrorist attacks again. It's a way of life for them.
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You could say the same about many types of crime. I'm sure some are aways a danger, some totally rehabilitate, and some are somewhere in the middle.
 
coluka said:
Why not, it is the legal age for criminal responsibility after all. I knew the difference between right and wrong at 10, I am sure just about all do. It might help parents keep a closer eye and keener interest on what their kids get up to.

I love the way people know the current system does not work but seem to object to anything that might improve things or make parents more accountable.
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In my opinion it is ridiculous that the age of criminal responsibility is 10, the youngest in Europe. Cases under 14 should be treated as welfare cases, including parenting work
 
coluka said:
No idea, I can only offer my opinion.

1. Serve full sentences that reflect their crime, no reductions.
2. Make prison life harsher. No visitors, no sky TV, single cells, proper work, but include time for compulsory education built in. Learn skills useful within society.
3. Make criminals pay the full cost of any damages caused
4. Once leaving prison have schemes to incentivise employers to employ ex prisoners. Have a form of localised ‘national service‘ where they receive the minimum wage within communities gardening schemes for the disabled, decorating schemes, litter picking, all sorts of jobs, overseen by probation or councils to improve the community to practice their skills. Rehabilitation only works if it is continued after release.
5. Repeating of criminality apply increased sentences if found guilty
6. Deportation of non UK citizens or revoking citizenship where dual status held.
7. Death penalty for terrorists and serial killers
8. Name and shame anyone aged 10 or over guilty of a serious/repeated criminal offence
9. Hold parents to account more than is currently the case for their children's actions.
10. Home curfews and increased tagging for low level offenders.

There‘s a few musings of which none will ever happen, a mixture of strong deterrent and some incentivising. Schools should teach more on citizenship, good parenting, life skills, not just the core subjects. A troubled home life is often the cause for a delinquent child growing into a criminal adult. Nobody teaches anyone to be a good parent unfortunately, children learn from parental behaviours, not just the good stuff unfortunately. In lots of households parents don’t check what their kids are up to outside of the home. The home, thats where the seeds are often grown and determines how we blossom as adults, not always, but more often than not.
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I agree with all of the above which I think is an excellent post; bar points 7 and 8. Terrorism is an opaque word and 10 is very young IMHO.
 
Borobuddah said:
In my opinion it is ridiculous that the age of criminal responsibility is 10, the youngest in Europe. Cases under 14 should be treated as welfare cases, including parenting work
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To suggest a typical 10 yr old does not have sense of right and wrong is ridiculous, It is 10 for a reason. Some kids, a small minority though are almost feral like sadly and blight many a life, do not underestimate the effect they can have on their victims. I dare say Thompson and Venables, they’d agree with you too to be fair, as I am sure Denise Fergus would, oh wait on, maybe not her.

In reality, many cases are already treated as welfare cases anyway. You obviously have to look at the merits of what has gone on and why not a blanket approach. However, If there is a serial offender on a street or estate residents in my view have a right to know if little johnny and his mates have a penchant for slashing tyres or snapping wing mirrors off cars, throwing eggs and stones at windows. Some parents think their kids are angels and wont accept little Johnny is maybe getting out of control, some parents wont care what little Johnny does or whom he mixes with, even if you approach them. Welfare does not always work, in my experience it often fails, in part due to poor parenting, lack of resources and diversion facilities, thats where our drug dealer friends come in to help with phones, ipads etc bless em. We have the Tories to thank too for some of it doing away with funding cuts so sure start centres and children/youth services were cut.
 
Amazing how many people know all the ins and outs of this case and are prepared to summarily dispense justice based on a few articles in the media.

Of course she could have been groomed. Or do those who think she was old enough to make her own decisions also think Adam Johnson did nothing wrong then?

She might not have been groomed and even if she was it doesn't necessarily excuse everything. But I would expect as a developed nation we would conduct a full investigation/trial before reaching conclusions.

She strikes me a stupid young girl who's been brainwashed. While what she's apparently become is abhorrent I'm uneasy with judgement by daily mail columnist.

Don't get me wrong, proven terrorists deserve everything they get. Do what you want with them, couldn't care less. They are evil broken human beings.

But if she was brainwashed/groomed etc shouldn't we be doing more than just washing our hands of it. She's a British citizen and it took place on our soil? Or are we determined as a nation to head further down the route of fear and hate that's become increasingly prevalent the last few years?
 
festa5 said:
Amazing how many people know all the ins and outs of this case and are prepared to summarily dispense justice based on a few articles in the media.

Of course she could have been groomed. Or do those who think she was old enough to make her own decisions also think Adam Johnson did nothing wrong then?

She might not have been groomed and even if she was it doesn't necessarily excuse everything. But I would expect as a developed nation we would conduct a full investigation/trial before reaching conclusions.

She strikes me a stupid young girl who's been brainwashed. While what she's apparently become is abhorrent I'm uneasy with judgement by daily mail columnist.

Don't get me wrong, proven terrorists deserve everything they get. Do what you want with them, couldn't care less. They are evil broken human beings.

But if she was brainwashed/groomed etc shouldn't we be doing more than just washing our hands of it. She's a British citizen and it took place on our soil? Or are we determined as a nation to head further down the route of fear and hate that's become increasingly prevalent the last few years?
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A really thoughtful post festa with some good points.
My view is she made major efforts to leave our country, denounced it and declared herself a citizen of another "country".
She has to accept responsibility. She wasn't stripped of citizenship, she rejected it.
 
RandySavage said:
Where is the proof she was groomed?
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She was certainly "helped" to get to Syria, depends on your definition of "grooming" I suppose. Influencing, cajoling, incentivising, whatever. 15 years old. It is nonsense to say that Terrorist Sympathisers can't change. Particularly 15 year old ones who have seen the reality of war? We have peace in Northern Ireland because a lot of Terrorist Sympahisers HAVE changed.
 
indeedido said:
A really thoughtful post festa with some good points.
My view is she made major efforts to leave our country, denounced it and declared herself a citizen of another "country".
She has to accept responsibility. She wasn't stripped of citizenship, she rejected it.
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Its hard to have sympathy for her, because what you say is true.

However IF she was groomed/brainwashed then I do have sympathy for the girl she was (and her family).

I don't know what you do with her in that scenario. But washing our hands of it feels wrong. At the very least I'd hope we can learn something to help stop it happening to anyone else.
 
Terrorist is such as wide definition it becomes meaningless.

Many of ISIS appeared to be armed indirectly by the USA and Saudis. I suspect they had said they were fighting Assad in Syria and they were seen as Sunni brothers, but became more radicalised with time. ISIS as we know are quite well armed and tend to fight in the open, opposed to terrorists that leave bombs on trains etc. People very loosely attached to them appear to operate as lone groups or individuals who had planted bombs/attacked with knives & guns against random members of the public.

There was a young British guy on my regional news who has been fighting with the Kurds against ISIS and possibly against the Turkish Army. The British Government want to prosecute him as a terrorist.

This young woman (SB) appears to have been radicalised in the UK (as a young teenager) without knowing her its difficult to say if she will change her views. However people can change as we have seen in Northern Ireland. As said previously, was SB born in the UK? How did she get her UK citizenship? to me these questions are relevant to her case?

George Orwell went to fight in Spain in 1936 which was illegal for British Citizens to do, he was called a terrorist by the Spanish Nationalists who became the Spanish Government in 1939. He would have been put on MI5/MI6 lists as politically radical and suspect, but in reality he was left alone to write books and was no threat to people in this country.
 
Muttley said:
She was certainly "helped" to get to Syria, depends on your definition of "grooming" I suppose. Influencing, cajoling, incentivising, whatever. 15 years old. It is nonsense to say that Terrorist Sympathisers can't change. Particularly 15 year old ones who have seen the reality of war? We have peace in Northern Ireland because a lot of Terrorist Sympahisers HAVE changed.
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The TV interview she did last year she showed absolutely no remorse at all.

Her eyes were chilling.
 
coluka said:
To suggest a typical 10 yr old does not have sense of right and wrong is ridiculous, It is 10 for a reason. Some kids, a small minority though are almost feral like sadly and blight many a life, do not underestimate the effect they can have on their victims. I dare say Thompson and Venables, they’d agree with you too to be fair, as I am sure Denise Fergus would, oh wait on, maybe not her.

In reality, many cases are already treated as welfare cases anyway. You obviously have to look at the merits of what has gone on and why not a blanket approach. However, If there is a serial offender on a street or estate residents in my view have a right to know if little johnny and his mates have a penchant for slashing tyres or snapping wing mirrors off cars, throwing eggs and stones at windows. Some parents think their kids are angels and wont accept little Johnny is maybe getting out of control, some parents wont care what little Johnny does or whom he mixes with, even if you approach them. Welfare does not always work, in my experience it often fails, in part due to poor parenting, lack of resources and diversion facilities, thats where our drug dealer friends come in to help with phones, ipads etc bless em. We have the Tories to thank too for some of it doing away with funding cuts so sure start centres and children/youth services were cut.
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Aside from the questions about the negative long term impact of crimilising children the reason other countries have a higher age of responsibility isn't because kids don't know, on a basic level, "the difference between right and wrong". It's because althought they know something isn't right, they don't have the understanding to recognise the broader consequences of there actions and the impacts it has on people. 10 years is far lower than any other country in Europe, and the UK's stance has been criticised by the UN and others.
 
Once a terrorist always a terrorist. Unless of course you get something you want out of it, then that’s when you cease. Or when your killed by the opposition, like she should have been.
If you want what she wants then yeah, Let them back into society, let them air their views and have kids and put it on them also.
I don’t want her back, I wouldn’t have her back, and the world would be a safer place without her.
 
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