Scathing attack on government Covid-19 response

amount of deaths are rising faster than Italy did.

Have the government reacted to slowly to this. Should we have made things mandatory

‘Whatever it takes’ and ‘zero chance of that happening’ are conflicting messages
 
The government have definitely got the dealing of this outbreak wrong, they could and should have acted quicker to close things down and stop things like Cheltenham and 3500 Madrid fans coming to Liverpool - having said that it’s worth bearing in mind that the UK has averaged 17000 deaths annually for the last five years from the seasonal flu bug. I don’t think we’ll get near that with Covid 19 (hopefully)


🐔
 
Funky_Chicken said:
I don’t think we’ll get near that with Covid 19 (hopefully)
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Even the most optimistic estimates are 20,000. The key is to keep the rate of infection at a point where the health service can manage the most serious cases. That way only the already physically compromised (serious COPD etc) or uniquely vulnerable will not recover.

A less optimistic estimate predicts 500,000 dead. But that assumes more or less explosive infection rates. If they allowed that the entire thing would be over by the end of May, but the bodies would be stacked in cold storage until they could be cremated. It would be psychologically devastating.

The thing to bear in mind is that to get the lower number requires continuous controls on movement etc. for a least 6 months and possibly a year. So get used to it.

What they'd clearly really like to do is build capacity into the NHS to handle higher numbers of the seriously ill, and then let loose of the controls gradually until they can manage the load - though they're not saying this directly (they are indirectly). They're already discounting tens of thousands of deaths, because the truth is without imprisoning the entire country for a long time, it is inevitable.

What might work better is if you could identify and protect the most vulnerable, that's most people over 60 and those between 40 and 60 with underlying health conditions, and then let the virus rip. As I say earlier it would all be over by June. But you'd have to forcibly restrict the vulnerable from any outside contact.

Based on their statements to date, they appear to plan some compromise between managing the load and protecting the vulnerable. If it works the UK could be one of the first countries to get back to normal. Everywhere else is going for the shut it down approach, but that leaves entire populations vulnerable to multiple epidemics.
 
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Cooper6711 said:
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Was I. Who was this and independent expert in what?

Remember when the chief Rabbi attacked Labour during the election and his opinion didn't count as he was a Tory.... well same goes for this then. This bloke is a Labour party member with an agenda.

I'll continue to follow the most senior expert thanks
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Ephrahim Mirvis is not a Tory but in his opinion Corbyn was unfit to lead the country. You may be confusing him with a minor Rabbi elsewhere.
 
Matt Hancock in my opinion is out of his depth

Angela asked him to give clarity to give confidence. He agreed but then didn’t give any clarity all night

Take ventilators for example. We we’re given no numbers of what’ll be ready and when. We just got:

  • production has been switched
  • He seemed the gleaming that F1 were helping
  • We have been apart of Europe 25k ventilators, but we don’t know how many we will get

In my work will call that corporate bull crap. It’s wooly and isn’t a measurable action. That’s just ventilators, it was a recurring theme all night.

Andy Burnham came across confident on the issue. He talked about actions that they were taking within the hub of Manchester. He was concise and specific about what they were doing. He talked about protecting the most vulnerable.

I hope Matt Hancock got a transcript to take some Burnhams ideas
 
There was a UK ventilator manufacturer on TV last night. Various departments have been in touch but no orders. He didn't believe all these companies can just make 14000 ventilators. Even if he got an order, most of the components are from Japan, Taiwan and Germany, so there would be a long lead time to even start.
 
Guy on radio 4 this morning. Budget 10 days ago, yet business can’t get access to the funds

Therefore redundancies happening already. More will keep going to the wall day by day until it’s out

We need actions not words
 
The reality is that the Government are making announcements without any structure behind them to implement them and usually that doesn’t matter as people don’t notice the broke promises until it affects them, this heightened state of affairs is showing how little forethought or serious preparation is taking place at the highest levels, as an example we all knew schools would close at some time so why wasn’t the key profession data released last week so schools, parents and children knew what was happening and provisions and plans could be made, its incompetence on a massive scale.
 
Funky_Chicken said:
it’s worth bearing in mind that the UK has averaged 17000 deaths annually for the last five years from the seasonal flu bug.
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Not a dig at you personally, but I’m afraid this is one of those much quoted statistics (usually quoted as 30,000 annually) for which there is little real evidence.

The number of people who die of flu each year (i.e. it’s mentioned on their death certificate) is between 250 and 500. We’re getting close to those numbers already.

The much larger numbers (17,000 or 30,000) are derived from a statistical exercise by the Office for National Statistics.

They compare total deaths during the flu season with total deaths across the year and then calculate the number of ‘excess deaths’ which they assume to be flu-related. There’s no actual evidence that any of those people died because of the flu, or even that they had flu at all. It’s just an assumption.

Interesting op-ed piece from the British Medical Journal on this from a couple of years ago, if anyone’s interested:

https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2795/rr-6
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
Saying the guardian isn't left wing is a bit like saying the daily mail isn't right wing.
The left is rather split between socialism and liberalism. The more money you make the more you tend to focus on liberal issues that aren't going to take away your cash. The guardian tends to get middle class readers and so focuses on liberalism. It's still left wing though and you should filter any information you get from the guardian same way as the daily mail. Many of the points he makes seem sensible and practical. The tone of the article is poor though.

Of you ask three lawyers the same question you get three answers. Seems to be the same with medical experts the newspapers are rustling up. Especially when the disease is new to them. Note the BBC are now saying the virus can stay up to 48 hours on surfaces. They said it was a very short time previously.

As for our public services. I've been working in public service for the last ten years. Cuts came in around the start of the decade. From 2011 to around 2015 the conditions were shameful. This was due to the speed and scale of cuts. Slowly new systems have been introduced and started working and slowly new staff have come in and we've got better. Not sure how that can be extrapolated to the NHS. I would imagine the number of deaths we see from this disease will be dwarfed by the number caused by cuts.
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These attacks on the Guardian all spring from the diseased mind of Mr Cummings. The paper does have a bias which can be called left wing but more importantly it tries to present facts in a staright forward rational way. Not all contributors may achieve this all the time no doubt but just compare it to the rest of the press. Mail and Sun especially. One point showing the madness of Cummings is the idea that other engineering outfits could quickly produce ventilators. This is at best a mistake and at worst blatant propoganda. The one firm that produces ventilators in this country will explain how the parts must be sourced from several companies all over the world. The design and assembly of medical grade ventilators is complex and to imagine that JCB could knock up some during lunch breaks is absurd.

The Government is very good at making eye catching statements not so in producing results.
 
Lottowyn said:
Labour organ Grannyad talking the country down as usual. Nothing new there then.😷
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The Guardian isn't particularly left wing. In the past the Times, Telegraph and FT were regarded as Tory supporting, as were the Sun, the Mail, the Express and the NOTW. The Mirror, Sunday Mirror and The People were Labour, the Star as a comic, the Independent having no bias (or covering all biases) and Observer/Guardian as more Liberal, middle of the road. Of course in recent timess the Lib-dems have been to the left of Labour in some matters, but mainly the reason the Guardian is now painted as 'Left Wing' is partly deliberate by those on the Right to paint it that way and partly because the Overton window has shifted to the right.

It's a pretty good paper. It still tries to do proper journalism, paying attention to facts, details, accountability and covering serious issues and news, not just sensationalism, ratings and clickbait. It's not perfect but it's pretty good. There are plenty of Tories write pieces in it.

Anyway it's well worth £5-£10 a month.

It's worth it just for Marina Hyde in fact. Yet another magnificent piece from her today in fact. Some absolute belting one liners. Scathing stuff :D

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...vid-19-prime-minister-brexit?CMP=share_btn_tw
 
Top quote!

“When the truth offends, we lie and lie until we can no longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid.”
 
The Guardian deliberately isn't a right or left wing paper, it reports without bias or prejudice and that's the reason why it's the only publication I read seriously.

Anyone who feels it does have bias towards the left probably speaks if their own political world view.
 
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So several companies contacted the government, several weeks ago asking to supply ventilators and were not answered by the government. The EU also sent emails to the government asking if we wished to join in with mass procurement and that was also ignored. Now, apparently they are working tirelessly to get them. I think it is very clear that they were going to go for herd immunity and then panicked and so changed policy. This government do not have people’s best interests at heart.
 
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A good comment (from the Guardian) have to share......
Hate to point out the obvious, but UK has not embarked on the testing campaign because it would rapidly become apparent that we do not have the capacity. That would then lead to awkward questions about the wisdom of running down a country’s health service.
Far better to divert with Dunkirk, mass volunteer campaigns and hand clapping nonsense. Meanwhile our loved ones that work in the NHS are being sent like lambs to the slaughter without protective gear.
Lest we forget eh?
 
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