Regaining our sovereignty

coluka said:
We have lots of internal borders now that are monitored everyday by the various police forces using ANPR cameras, They are very helpful in dealing with cross border crime for example. I don’t see the problem with what Gove has said. It seems sensible to have a plan given brexit is happening, they would be shot down if they didn’t tbf.
Click to expand...
Trying to equate this to chasing ”County Lines“ drug dealers is absolute b@ll@x Col!!
 
coluka said:
And the insults start. whether you are for or against is irrelevant. Pragmatism has to be accepted I’m afraid
Click to expand...
It's not meant as an insult, the general citizenship as a whole voted 'for this'. I put 'for this' in brackets, because this was never defined when they voted, so they didn't really. The politicians are interpreting 'this' for their own agendas, and a lot of their campaign comments (both referendum and last election) are now being proven to be nonsense. Pragmatism was staying in the single market, but 'gaining sovereignty'. A no deal hard brexit is the extremist goal not the pragmatic goal. But thanks for your feedback.
 
coluka said:
As a nation we need to be practical and ptagmatic.
Click to expand...
Practical and pragmatic means you re-assess the impacts rather than stick dogmatically to implementing an absolute dogs dinner of a strategy that will fundamentally harm the citizenship economically, healthwise, and opportunity wise. Ploughing ahead with carving the country up, creating internal borders, harming our supply chain, losing jobs, losing access to scientific study, medicine and a free trade market, none of this is practical, or pragmatic. Your words were correct, your interpretation is still following extremist interpretation.
 
coluka said:
Because I am a pragmatist that both parties will not want constant disruption and businesses will adapt, change and evolve. Trade happens globally now it will do so in future. I keep pointing out that we have systems in place for importing and exporting around the world, as does the EU. It requires licensing, checks and monitoring now the EU do exactly the same. The EU will be just another addition to the existing system. The EU want an agreement, This government wants an agreement. Both parties are playing hardball. It amazes me so many British people who will continue to be British people take the EU’s side thinking they are right and we should lay down and kow tow for the scraps they offer. Trade is a two way deal there has to be give and take. I do believe we will reach an agreement in time certainly within a couple of years. Some disruption to start with might even be a catalyst to sharpen minds and hasten it up.
People should realise by now, I am no lover of this government, the Tories, the handling of Brexit. I voted for it, but also believe it should never have been offered as a referendum by Dodgy Dave. I was happy for a 2nd referendum as the public no far more now than in 2016. However, I am a pragmatist, as The great Mr Mowbray would say, It is what it is. We have to get on with things as they are, be practical and deal with the change and manage it as best we can. The EU want the best deal for them, we want the best deal for the UK, thats normal. Anyone living in the UK should want the government to try to get the best deal it can too. If that means WTO terms for a while, so be it. As a nation we need to be practical and ptagmatic. We have to have some systems in place for goodness sake. All I hear on this thread is anti government rhetoric and criticism. I do not like or support them, but I am glad they are trying to do something to monitor and check goods coming and going as life would be a whole lot more dangerous otherwise. It may not be perfect, but its a start.
Click to expand...

This is not pragmatism, its blind hope. You're expecting something to happen when there is no precedent for the logistical nightmare that we are walking head long into.

None of this was supposed to happen, none of it, yet we are 3 months away from what was derided as "project fear". Brexit to the UK is akin to cutting your own legs off and hoping they grow back.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
I have a few ideas, like remaining in EFTA. But again, Leave mean Leave, etc etc. Means we risk peace in NI and have internal borders all over the UK.

For someone who voted for this shambles and whose biggest political desire is to maintain the union I'd say that your love of Brexit isn't going to plan.

As for sniping from the ether - it is an anonymous message board, do you want my CV and NI number? Presently credentials to parliament?
Click to expand...

Firstly do I love brexit? Love, really 👀 No, I merely voted for it and defended everyones right to have their say despite calling the referendum stupid. I was also on the fence for ages, but felt in the longer term it had merits. I do agree the government are making a shambles of handling it, I supported the call for a second referendum with a call for remain or leave again and a second question that only came into play if leave won with a preferred brexit option of No deal or EFTA type option. I am not defending this governments handling it has been woeful. I am merely being pragmatic from where they have taken us to. As for your ridiculous riposte about your sniping, no thanks I don’t, that would plainly be silly.
 
coluka said:
Firstly do I love brexit? Love, really 👀 No, I merely voted for it and defended everyones right to have their say despite calling the referendum stupid. I was also on the fence for ages, but felt in the longer term it had merits.
Click to expand...

I voted Leave because I thought there was a real opportunity here as well, but its been a shambles since the result. Its hard to be optimistic, pragmatic or upbeat when you look at some of the things that have gone on since that 'day'.

  1. Dave leaves with his toys because he didn't get the result his smug face thought they would.
  2. Theresa May comes in, holds an election and loses her majority which makes any deal making harder.
  3. TM starts working on the Brexit arrangements, can't get the deal close to being passed as there are too many objections.
  4. Replaced by Boris, with Cummings in the background. Then proceeds to get a WA passed that is essentially the same thing TM tried for. Disingenuous much?
  5. Gove and Chris Grayling, need I say more about these two slimy weasels.
  6. Flounders on every issue, but is made to look great because Corbyn was a poisoned chalice to the electorate.
  7. Covid happens. The government response was slow, shambolic, the guidance was open to way too much interpretation, more flip flops that a holiday resort in Spain.
  8. One rule for one and not the other. Cummings does a County Durham trip, public outcry, what happens, nothing. BJ says the public want to put it behind them. Actually you d*ckhead, we want accountability.
  9. Medical staff are starting to be pulled from briefings just as Boris announces how critical test and trace is to making sure we control the virus spread, because it doesn't look good politically.
  10. The Internal Markets bill is produced which shows the world that the UK cannot be trusted to accept previous negotiated agreements and makes us look like a bunch of tin pot despots. EU threaten legal action (not surprising).
  11. Keir Starmer targets test and trace in PMQ's, describes it as farcical. BJ says its not useful in the fight against COVID, reversing his own position once again from something he said 3 months ago. Starts using the freedom word and convinces me he's Trump's brother.
How can any reasonable person in the UK believe this government will do anything that is useful and constructive for this country going forward. Its been one cockup to another for 4 years. Anyone who knows me will call me the eternal optimist, but its hard to be with evidence of sheer incompetence over a prolonged period of time.
 
BoroMart said:
Balls to some of them, doubly galling to us in Kent, who voted remain and are listening to leavers complaining that the EU is doing this to us.....utterly clueless.
Click to expand...

Got loads of family down there. There is no talking to them about Brexit - they still want to leave - they just don't want the M20 to be a lorry park. Oh well.
 
BaronSmoggie said:
TM starts working on the Brexit arrangements, can't get the deal close to being passed as there are too many objections..
Click to expand...

Great post, it's a total incompetence, but I'd take it back longer than 4 years. The point about too many objections, shows the incompetence of the referendum itself. One should never hold a referendum that is open to interpretation in its meaning, that is a surefire way for chaos. If they had said, Brexit with No deal vs remain. Then fine it was a fair and square win, and it would have been delivered a long time ago. There couldn't have been any parliamentary objections. The reality is the initial referendum question was so flawed that it pitted all possible outcomes for leave as all plausible and given the rhetoric probable. It's the root cause why brexit won and why it took 4 years to deliver in a manner that was insatisfactory to many who voted for it. It has delivered irreparable social and cultural damage, and looks like creating financial, logistics, human rights, medical and science issues.
 
BaronSmoggie said:
I voted Leave because I thought there was a real opportunity here as well, but its been a shambles since the result. Its hard to be optimistic, pragmatic or upbeat when you look at some of the things that have gone on since that 'day'.

  1. Dave leaves with his toys because he didn't get the result his smug face thought they would.
  2. Theresa May comes in, holds an election and loses her majority which makes any deal making harder.
  3. TM starts working on the Brexit arrangements, can't get the deal close to being passed as there are too many objections.
  4. Replaced by Boris, with Cummings in the background. Then proceeds to get a WA passed that is essentially the same thing TM tried for. Disingenuous much?
  5. Gove and Chris Grayling, need I say more about these two slimy weasels.
  6. Flounders on every issue, but is made to look great because Corbyn was a poisoned chalice to the electorate.
  7. Covid happens. The government response was slow, shambolic, the guidance was open to way too much interpretation, more flip flops that a holiday resort in Spain.
  8. One rule for one and not the other. Cummings does a County Durham trip, public outcry, what happens, nothing. BJ says the public want to put it behind them. Actually you d*****d, we want accountability.
  9. Medical staff are starting to be pulled from briefings just as Boris announces how critical test and trace is to making sure we control the virus spread, because it doesn't look good politically.
  10. The Internal Markets bill is produced which shows the world that the UK cannot be trusted to accept previous negotiated agreements and makes us look like a bunch of tin pot despots. EU threaten legal action (not surprising).
  11. Keir Starmer targets test and trace in PMQ's, describes it as farcical. BJ says its not useful in the fight against COVID, reversing his own position once again from something he said 3 months ago. Starts using the freedom word and convinces me he's Trump's brother.
How can any reasonable person in the UK believe this government will do anything that is useful and constructive for this country going forward. Its been one cockup to another for 4 years. Anyone who knows me will call me the eternal optimist, but its hard to be with evidence of sheer incompetence over a prolonged period of time.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of that. Doing nothing is not an option. Do I trust them to make a success of it, nope. It looks an unmitigated disaster waiting to happen due to their woeful handling of, well, everything. It need not have been this way, very few who voted for brexit voted for what has happened since. A sensible government would have said that once a brexit deal was agreed if indeed one could be it should be put for a confirmatory referendum based on the deal, or no deal if that were the case. They didn’t and we have a managed mess. We as the population have 2 choices, riot or get on with doing all we can to make things work until the next election.
I understand why remain voters are up in arms, but they should not think all Brexit voters are happy with their lot. The referendum should never have been called. Cameron should never have been allowed to take the cowards way out, it was a dereliction of duty. He should have owned his referendum and dealt with it. The Tories have messed up massively and we have little choice but to get on with it as best we all can and hope the next election comes sooner than 2024. I am not optimistic the Tories will do anything correctly in the peoples interest, but I am glad they are doing something albeit too little too late.
 
coluka said:
I understand why remain voters are up in arms, but they should not think all Brexit voters are happy with their lot.
Click to expand...
We don't Col, we always said a large number of leave voters will be angry regardless how they implement because they were all promised things that were mutually exclusive. This was called out a long time ago, but was ignored.
 
BaronSmoggie said:
Yep, to me, Brexit boils down to this
Click to expand...
Not a bad video but I can't give it five stars because it gets its facts wrong (whilst still proving a good point). The Netherlands and Portugal have not legalised cannabis and Spain is probably the closest example of near legalisation, but the point being made that EU countries can make their own laws and not suffer loss of sovereignty are true.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top