Diego
Well-known member
Chris the red was obsessed
Re Jones - be careful what you wish for
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locomansimon
Well-known member
Jones is a good player at our level, end of argument!
Diego
Well-known member
It’s a very respectable stat considering he playing for a team who have struggled so far and played wingback for the majority of it. The only thing that frustrates me about Jones is when he tries to pass it from outside the box into the box rather than cross it. The pass along the floor works when he gets into the box and cuts it back, if he shows a bit more variation he will get even more assists especially now he’s played as a winger. We need to continuing supporting him. He’s very important for us.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Agree it's respectable, but not a top player stat. I think by the end of the season it'll likely be higher though.
My frustrations, out of possession he slides in too often, and often misses. I think we've conceded about 4 times this year when he has tried to slide in to take the ball from his man, missed and they've gone on and scored.
He loses his man too easily, see saturday, it was his man that scored and he was nowhere near him.
I agree about the 'pass' into the box he also has got into a habit trying to cross through the defenders legs.
35th in expected assists though (and Giles is 8th) which tells you everything about our finishing.
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Last season he was 32nd and had a slightly worse return (0.18 this season v 0.17 last season)
Which doesn't suggest he has had a massive drop off in form.
tbf though that move (their goal) all started with Tommy Smith wandering into midfield which left out right hand side totally exposed
festa5
Well-known member
Yep exactly. He might be 23, but in terms of experience and grounding on some elements of the game probably more like a 20/21 year old in footballing terms, because he's not had that education that players who come through the academy system get. He needs to be judged as an exciting youngster with some rough edges still, because that's what he is.
Feels like a lot of players who come from non league end up being late developers for that reason.
BoroMart
Well-known member
I think his drop off has been going the other way, he's been a liability defensively. But then so has Giles35th in expected assists though (and Giles is 8th) which tells you everything about our finishing.
FotMob
FotMob is the essential app for matchday. Get live scores, fixtures, tables, match stats, and personalised news from over 500 football leagues around the world.
Last season he was 32nd and had a slightly worse return (0.18 this season v 0.17 last season)
Which doesn't suggest he has had a massive drop off in form.
Ex Footy Legs
Well-known member
I dont think he will be chastising in private mind....MC will probably be communicating largely positive messages to players like Jones.....stuff such as ; 'i've seen what you can do, i've watched you before arriving here, and know exactly how you can change a game in a moment. We need to work on bringing that out as much as possible, your work rate is excellent, we just need to work on you being freed up when you get hte ball and your decision making but making sure to committ to your decisions fully and don't be bothered by mistakes, they happen to us all'
That's what I expect MC will be saying to players like Jones, Giles etc...
indeedido
Well-known member
Spot on. Smith was miles out of position losing the ball on the left side of midfield, then simply didn't get back at all.
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
I kind of agree, you can coach in a different way. Ask jones what he could have done better, get him to identify it and then he’ll be more likely work on it when you ask him what he’s gonna to do to change it
Get them to do the work for you
BoroMart
Well-known member
Of course a heavy touch by Smith in CM caused the turnover, but you have to react and cover and Jones's work was sloppy.
1) He does the right thing to get goalside of Weimann but he's ball watching not man watching
2) His body position and position in relation to Weimann is all wrong, and allows Weimann to turn inside him
3) Now he struggles to close Weimann down
4) He is late to block the pass, and Weimann immediately runs behind Jones. He really didn't have an opportunity to block it so should have marked the man, bad decision. Weimann's got the run on him, done him like a kipper
5) Within 3 seconds they've gone from touching to 10 foot away because Jones got his body position wrong, which forced him to recover at the wrong angle and gave Weimann the jump on him
I'm not trying to be overly critical of a young inexperienced player, just giving my summary of what went wrong, and Jones made two big mistakes when his initial field position was actually ok. I think it's more of a mistake than Smith losing it in their half. It's not the first time this season either, I could show others. I don't blame him for stokes goal, that was bad refing, but he's probably made big mistakes in 4 or 5 of the goals we've let in.
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MickaelDebevePhenomenal
Well-known member
I've not seen the build up to the goal again, however, id question why in possession is smith in that area of the pitch.
Chutney
Well-known member
Yeah, it did look to me like Smith had forgotten Jones wasn't playing wingback and had just left him to it.
I'm sure Jones could do better there but he was quite high up the pitch when we lost possession and ultimately he's covering for Smith - for me it has to be Smith mainly at fault for the goal as he has no real reason to be over there.
On the other side it was a very good counter attack.
On the other side it was a very good counter attack.
indeedido
Well-known member
Just look at our number 14 in your stills from number 1 still all through.
Jones didn't do well, but Smith jogging back from a ludicrous position is the reason they easily score the goal.
r00fie1
Well-known member
He`s a smashing lad. Very humble. Someone on the radio - may have been Neil Maddison(?) - said "players have to learn to be footballers". By that was meant that youngsters who are shot into the fire without proper education and knowledge - young players, particulaly, have to face big money, being contiuously under the microscope and in the spotlight and having expectations upon them which may be unrealistic.
To some - they may believe that is all "cotton wool (ing)" players and we will get the expected "well we didnt pamper players like.....blah blah blah". Times have changed - thats why clubs now have kids as young as 8 being signed up to our academies. Young players [though not all] are also faced with more money a week than some of us earn in a month. It may sound like fairyland to those of us not gifted enough to play professional football - but it doesnt mean every individual has the tools to combat the mental pressure and challenges of the modern game.
Isaiah is a young man - who has been shot into the spotlight from dog-schit park and playing surfaces like spuds on an allotment - just a few years ago. Its no surprise that hes given 110% since he got his place established in the first team and played at 100 miles per hour. He needs to be handled in a way that fills that large piece of the jigsaw missing from the beginning of his career.
I`m sure he will get the support he needs from the backroom team [along with every other player] and learn to cope more effectively with daily football issues like being linked to other clubs [like West Ham and Crystal Palace]. A young player can have their focus shifted by media speculation and agent-talk, because they dont know how to deal with it and concentrate on their game.
This is not a list of "excuses" - but a call for abit more understanding and less of the "man-up" attitude.
Michael Carrick - during an illustrious career - has revealed his experience with depression [see the post on the board I made earlier]. Money and exposure to the media spotlight doesnt mean any individual is fireproof.
Isaiah will come good and maybe able to give 90% and achieve even better than he did last season. The lad needs our support.
To some - they may believe that is all "cotton wool (ing)" players and we will get the expected "well we didnt pamper players like.....blah blah blah". Times have changed - thats why clubs now have kids as young as 8 being signed up to our academies. Young players [though not all] are also faced with more money a week than some of us earn in a month. It may sound like fairyland to those of us not gifted enough to play professional football - but it doesnt mean every individual has the tools to combat the mental pressure and challenges of the modern game.
Isaiah is a young man - who has been shot into the spotlight from dog-schit park and playing surfaces like spuds on an allotment - just a few years ago. Its no surprise that hes given 110% since he got his place established in the first team and played at 100 miles per hour. He needs to be handled in a way that fills that large piece of the jigsaw missing from the beginning of his career.
I`m sure he will get the support he needs from the backroom team [along with every other player] and learn to cope more effectively with daily football issues like being linked to other clubs [like West Ham and Crystal Palace]. A young player can have their focus shifted by media speculation and agent-talk, because they dont know how to deal with it and concentrate on their game.
This is not a list of "excuses" - but a call for abit more understanding and less of the "man-up" attitude.
Michael Carrick - during an illustrious career - has revealed his experience with depression [see the post on the board I made earlier]. Money and exposure to the media spotlight doesnt mean any individual is fireproof.
Isaiah will come good and maybe able to give 90% and achieve even better than he did last season. The lad needs our support.
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I think part of the problem is some go overboard when they break through and then have unrealistic expectations.
Jones was good, very good at times last season but never quite as good as some were making out. Same with Hackney, yes he has impressed but it's still really early days.