No cuddling, no board games, no sitting opposite each other for dinner...

Laughing said:
Give over with the hyperbol ST
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It’s the truth though. We restricted things during the first lockdown. we then eased the restrictions and the cases shot up. Then the deaths shot up. Anyone wanting to have big gatherings at Christmas is stupidly selfish as they are inviting a third spike just because they want to celebrate a festival.
 
SmallTown said:
It’s the truth though. We restricted things during the first lockdown. we then eased the restrictions and the cases shot up. Then the deaths shot up. Anyone wanting to have big gatherings at Christmas is stupidly selfish as they are inviting a third spike just because they want to celebrate a festival.
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Define a large gathering?
I'm assuming you will be having some form of Xmas celebration this year?
 
Paulroddam7 said:
That’s not essential either.
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How can you dictate what is and isn’t essential to someone else?

Neither of these (my) posts are intended as digs, rather counterpoints to those calling others selfish etc. I just find it astonishing that some people take it upon themselves to presume they can judge and dictate to others what they should view as being or not being essential and have the gall to call THEM selfish in the process. You don’t know anyone else’s circumstances so should not judge or impose. I don’t think anyone here is advocating a mass party of dozens of people but some, for whatever personal reason in line with their personal circumstances are expressing a wish to spend some time with a small number of close loved ones at a traditionally ‘special’ time of year. I won’t be judging or criticising them.

If thousands gather on New Year’s Eve then I would agree that that could probably be cast as Selfish and irresponsible. A small family gathering, not so much.

Also, given the government has relaxed the rules for 4 days for whatever reason then no-one will be breaking any laws.
 
El Guapo said:
How can you dictate what is and isn’t essential to someone else?

Neither of these (my) posts are intended as digs, rather counterpoints to those calling others selfish etc. I just find it astonishing that some people take it upon themselves to presume they can judge and dictate to others what they should view as being or not being essential and have the gall to call THEM selfish in the process. You don’t know anyone else’s circumstances so should not judge or impose. I don’t think anyone here is advocating a mass party of dozens of people but some, for whatever personal reason in line with their personal circumstances are expressing a wish to spend some time with a small number of close loved ones at a traditionally ‘special’ time of year. I won’t be judging or criticising them.

If thousands gather on New Year’s Eve then I would agree that that could probably be cast as Selfish and irresponsible. A small family gathering, not so much.

Also, given the government has relaxed the rules for 4 days for whatever reason then no-one will be breaking any laws.
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I agree that what would be important to people differs massively, particularly what stage of life your at.

20 year old me would have found the worse thing about this whole pandemic would not be able to go to go the pub or on a night out and get hammered.
30 year old me just wants to be able to introduce our baby to family.
 
We are having my father in law here for Christmas. He is 86 lives alone. WE are isolating, my wife and I for 10 days prior. Our 9 year old cannot isolate as she is in school.

There are people on here pointing fingers and calling people names. It really isn't acceptable. ST has characterized my family and other families as "putting a few sherbets" ahead of the safety of my father in law. The characterization is wrong, insulting and juvenile. It will be inaccurate for most families. Perhaps Christmas is all about getting hammered for St, for most of us it's an occasion to share a special day with those you love, care for and need to spend time with.

I don't really care what ST thinks of my actions but others may be offended by his polarised characterization of his fellow man.
 
Over 26000 people were killed or seriously injured on roads in the UK last year, if we made the speed limit at 15mph there would have been almost 0.

The benefits of a 15mph are numerous; ease of driving, environmental, earlier electric cars, almost zero deaths and you can still get where you want to be.

Should we start a petition in parliament?
 
The left wing seem happy to call anyone and everyone that doesn't agree with them selfish.

Ironically they then go on to show it is them that is selfish.

It's funny that people whom are happy to see their family have become enemy number one.
 
RandySavage said:
Define a large gathering?
I'm assuming you will be having some form of Xmas celebration this year?
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Define a large gathering: exactly. Everyone has different ideas of what is safe. Thing is the experts also have ideas which is why we currently have restrictions and a tier system. We are breaking these restrictions at Christmas not for scientific reasons, or any logic, but because there are too many selfish idiots in this country who want to have their family get together and are either ignorant or just dismissive of why we have the restrictions in the first place.

I've already stated I'm upset that I can't come home for Christmas. I'm going to miss my family but fortunately I can see the bigger picture.
 
SmallTown said:
Define a large gathering: exactly. Everyone has different ideas of what is safe. Thing is the experts also have ideas which is why we currently have restrictions and a tier system. We are breaking these restrictions at Christmas not for scientific reasons, or any logic, but because there are too many selfish idiots in this country who want to have their family get together and are either ignorant or just dismissive of why we have the restrictions in the first place.

I've already stated I'm upset that I can't come home for Christmas. I'm going to miss my family but fortunately I can see the bigger picture.
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I understand and respect your point ST but calling people ignorant without being aware of their circumstances does neither you nor your argument any favours.
 
El Guapo said:
I understand and respect your point ST but calling people ignorant without being aware of their circumstances does neither you nor your argument any favours.
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This is kind of my point. There probably are circumstances where people have to be together at Christmas but I can’t for one think of any.
My ignorance comment is that if you want to get together at Christmas with people who you wouldn’t be able to in the current tier system then you are being ignorant. You’re being ignorant of the virus, how it spreads and the impact that has (longer lockdowns and more deaths in the future. I’ve read this whole thread and have yet to see a compelling reason why meeting up with family for Christmas is acceptable when weighed up against the risk of spreading COVID and risking the deaths of people .
 
Laughing said:
We are having my father in law here for Christmas. He is 86 lives alone. WE are isolating, my wife and I for 10 days prior. Our 9 year old cannot isolate as she is in school.

There are people on here pointing fingers and calling people names. It really isn't acceptable. ST has characterized my family and other families as "putting a few sherbets" ahead of the safety of my father in law. The characterization is wrong, insulting and juvenile. It will be inaccurate for most families. Perhaps Christmas is all about getting hammered for St, for most of us it's an occasion to share a special day with those you love, care for and need to spend time with.

I don't really care what ST thinks of my actions but others may be offended by his polarised characterization of his fellow man.
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Wouldn’t that be allowed under the social bubble rules anyway?
 
SmallTown said:
This is kind of my point. There probably are circumstances where people have to be together at Christmas but I can’t for one think of any.
My ignorance comment is that if you want to get together at Christmas with people who you wouldn’t be able to in the current tier system then you are being ignorant. You’re being ignorant of the virus, how it spreads and the impact that has (longer lockdowns and more deaths in the future. I’ve read this whole thread and have yet to see a compelling reason why meeting up with family for Christmas is acceptable when weighed up against the risk of spreading COVID and risking the deaths of people .
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It could be someone’s last Christmas
 
1finny said:
Xmas is important to some - I get that
But, if your start point is that lockdowns save lives then it makes sense to call the 5 day break exactly what it is this year -

It’s 5 days of killing people
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Pubs are open in many areas of the country. Is that “killing people”? Limiting yourself to two other households is arguably reducing your likelihood of spreading or becoming infected, provided you’re taking precautions and not going to the pub etc. Where you’d potentially be mixing with several other households on consecutive days.

I simply cannot imagine a world where people aren’t given a choice about seeing their families at Christmas. Christmas is extremely important to some people, notably grandparents, for religious reasons, mental health or otherwise. Having this guidance in place does not mean anyone should HAVE to see their families if they are not comfortable with the idea. It is purely about being given a choice and being trusted to take responsibility for your own actions. We don’t live in an autocracy (yet).

If people have elderly family members then they have a choice a) play it safe and avoid affecting them b) deprive them of their potentially last ever Christmas.

Not such an easy choice is it? I don't think 'selfish' even comes into it though. No one knows other people's circumstances.
 
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ChrisTheRed said:
The left wing seem happy to call anyone and everyone that doesn't agree with them selfish.

Ironically they then go on to show it is them that is selfish.

It's funny that people whom are happy to see their family have become enemy number one.
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This is nothing to do with left and right. I am regularly described as a “Liberal” by everyone who knows my political views, but that’s one of the reasons I don’t want a gang of pals from university dictate (quite literally) how I live my life without letting me assess my own risks, when they themselves have regularly ignored their own guidance and ignored the "science” when it has suited them or their own political agenda.
 
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SmallTown said:
Wouldn’t that be allowed under the social bubble rules anyway?
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No because my father-in-law is in a bubble with his other daughter who live a bit closer than we do.

I note you're argument and rhetoric has moved away from "wanting a few sherberts", or "using religion as an excuse", that's a start ST. Some of your posts on this thread, and you're not alone in this, are, to be frank insulting and juvenile.

You repeatedly fail, by design or accident, to accept there are some very good reasons for families to get together over Christmas that may have nothing to do with God nor alcohol, and take reasonable preventative measures to protect their loved ones and avoid spreading the virus.

Some of those reasons may be abject loneliness, very poor health and the likelihood of no next year, perhaps they are in palliative care and only have months to live.

You feel comfortable labelling these folks as "wanting a few sherberts" or "selfish". Well you have more conviction in your views than I would have.
 
ChrisTheRed said:
The left wing seem happy to call anyone and everyone that doesn't agree with them selfish.

Ironically they then go on to show it is them that is selfish.

It's funny that people whom are happy to see their family have become enemy number one.
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Why do you have to lump everyone into a left vs right?

I would consider myself left wing but will definitely be enjoying Christmas with my family this year and I encourage everyone who can to do the same.

Am I my own worst enemy?
 
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